Braves not looking to move Escobar

Jeff Francoeur is out of the lineup for a third straight game.  Tim Hudson felt fine while throwing an 18-pitch live batting practice session.  And, Martin Prado was named the National League’s Player of the Week.  

But before digging into today’s events, it seems more important to at least quiet the Yunel Escobar rumors that are circulating. 

Look I understand the entertainment value of the rumor market that will swirl over the next few weeks leading up to the trade deadline.  But at the same time, I think it’s time to take Yunel Escobar’s name out of the mix. 

Teams have certainly called to express interest in Escobar and with his stubborn personality the talented shortstop has given the Braves at least reason to ponder the possibility of moving him.

But from what I’ve gathered, the Braves have zero desire to move Escobar.  He’s simply not the kind of player that you move because you’ve found another warm body to fill the shortstop position.  

While his mental mistakes have sometimes been maddening, Escobar is a top-flight defensive shortstop, whose offensive production will grow as he continues to increase his power.   He ranks second in the National League with a .405 batting average with runners in scoring position and his team-leading 42 RBIs have been gathered at a cost of $425,000.  

Still one year away from becoming arbitration eligible, Escobar will once again prove cheap again next year, when he’ll once again be with the Braves.

Huddy update: The five-minute, 18-pitch live batting practice session that Hudson threw today was essentially what he would have completed had this been the first day of Spring Training.  He will throw another short session again on Tuesday and then steadily work to increase his arm strength in preparation for his for Minor League rehab start with Class A-Advanced Myrtle Beach on July 19. 

“It’s going to take some time for me to get used to pitching in a game, seeing hitters out there and having that added adrenaline rush,” said Hudson, who likely won’t be able to rejoin the Atlanta rotation before Aug. 25. 

Francoeur sits again:  Not to long ago, it was noteworthy whenever Jeff Francoeur was out of the lineup.  Thus, it was certainly newsworthy to see Cox leave Francoeur out of his lineup for a third straight game on Monday.

It’s near impossible to keep Matt Diaz’s bat out of the lineup right now and with the Cubs throwing right-hander Randy Wells tonight, Cox wanted to keep Garret Anderson’s bat in the mix.

When asked if he’d like to be traded Francoeur said, “It’s not something that I want.  I just want to play. You can take that however you want to.”

Prado POW:  When asked what he thought about being named the NL’s Player of the Week, Martin Prado talked about how surprised he was to win an honor that could have gone to the likes of Albert Pujols.

But while hitting .577 (15-for-26) with a .621 on-base percentage and 1.000 slugging percentage last week Prado deservedly earned this award over the likes of Pujols, who hit .429 (9-for-21) with a .571 on-base percentage and .952 slugging percentage.

 

114 Comments

The Braves don’t have another productive SS in the system that’s even near MLB ready, so if Escobar were to be traded, I would hope that it be for another SS. But the other SSs in the league are definitely not available from the teams that have them.
What’s important for Francoeur right now is to stay ready at all times. Baseball’s one of those games where things happen.

Congrats to Prado. Keep it up!

Not only do we not have another productive SS in the system that’s near MLB ready, we don’t have a single productive SS above rookie ball apart from Brandon Hicks. And Brandon Hicks is currently hitting .218/.277/.313. Awful. He’s basically fallen off the prospect map.

Mark, I believe Escobar has one PRE-arb season left.

I am shocked that Bobby is benching Frenchy, especially in favor of G. Anderson. Why not Blanco? If I’m not mistaken, Frenchy was doing pretty good at the plate. One step closer to Holliday!

Sadly, i think most people would feel you are mistaken in believing frenchy is doing well at the plate.

Also, I really dont want blanco to become an everyday option, massively rather have GA bat in there

Seems like every post i make on here is abusing JF, but i do really like him. I guess my critism is of the organisation continuing to throw him out there every day

Really good news to hear about Hudson. I’m also ecstatic that Escobar probably won’t be moved. He has some personality issues but he has so much potential. He could end up being a Miguel Tejada like player. If he can get his head in the game he could be All-Star caliber for years to come.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Jurrjens has allowed three homers in his past four starts…He had allowed a total of 19 homers in the 52 career starts that preceded this span…Nothing to get too overly concerned about right now…Just throwing a stat out there.

PW was correct. I meant to write that Esco had one more season before becoming arb-eligible. I fixed it above. But in case you read the original copy, I just wanted to point this out.

Jeff Francoeur comments are diconcerning. He should be more professional about the benching and realize the Braves have been more than patient with his futility.

A better statement would have been, whatever was best for the team. I’m not saying he shouldn’t want to play but he has to grow up and stop “pouting.”

I’ll give credit where credit is due. While preventing that double play, Garret ran harder than I’ve seen all year. It’s nice to see that there is some fire in that tank and his hustle might prove large by the time this inning is complete.

Defense at first is overrated, and that’s all that Kotch brings to the table. I would like to see a Vasquez for Fielder trade just to get an impact bat in there. And when is Bobby going to move Nate back in the lineup. Bobby in case you read this after the game, here’s your lineup for tomorrow.

LF Blanco
2B Prado
3B Chipper
C McCann
CF McClouth
SS Escobar
RF Diaz
1B Kotchman

unless you get my deal done, then we can have

LF Blanco
2B Prado
3B Chipper
1B Fielder
C McCann
CF McClouth
SS Escobar
RF Diaz

and what about Wily Mo…..would love to have that bat coming off the bench when we need a long one…is he washed up? attitude problems?

Defense at first overrated? Are you joking? Defense anywhere is never overrated. Defense is almost as essential to winning as good pitching. If defense is so overrated why would they even bother giving out the Gold Glove awards?
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Defense at first IS overrated…Ryan Howard last season…one of the worst years in history as a defensive first baseman…leads his team to a WS…but thats not even the point…Kotchman could be the greatest defensive 1B EVER, but with what he brings to the plate, he is useless…Garret Anderson needs to be removed from this lineup ASAP…sweep the phils, get to within 2…then lose 2/3 to the Nats and right back to 4 out…as a braves fan, this is getting stomach churning…Garret Anderson cant run, cant throw, cant get a good jump on a fly ball and since he has been in ATL, cant hit…pound the ball into the ground, foul passed first…how many times a game do we see that from him…or even worse, swing over the top of an off speed pitch…sure, he can hit a fast ball right over the plate, but then again, so can most of us…i like the blanco in LF idea…which gets Anderson out the lineup and moves Nate to an RBI spot…but bottom line is a move has to be made…we gotta get someone in LF or at 1B thats gonna play baseball at the plate…i cant take this anymore…Frank Wren loses Furcal before the season…then wouldnt sign Andruw…Smoltz…then they way we just threw Glavine to the trash…gettin Nate was HUGE…and a good move…but he now has to top that off with something…hell, even get us LaRoche back…because im tired of changing the channel everytime Kotchman comes to the plate…

I believe i said defense at FIRST BASE is overrated if you would read it again. I will grant you that defense is very important. Not saying put a guy out there to butcher it up, but really, how much of an impact would Kotchman’s defense compared to Fielder’s defense (who is a below avg fielder, no pun intended) make over 165 games….a whole lot less impact than that extra pop in the lineup…..i know from reading you will argue your point to the death no matter what, and that’s fine,but i would like to kindly disagree

jbashby:

lol…we arent disagreeing…in face…i would donate a kidney to get Fielder here…it was moneyball i was responding to

i know…was respnding to his nonsense then had to change a dirty-d….didnt see your post

Mark Bowman,

Kotchman? Good enough to stand pat at 1B?

jbashby, three things…
1) Ask the ’86 Red Sox if defense at 1B is overrated.
2) Since the Brewers are still in it, they will NOT move Fielder.
3) Wily Mo Peña is a no unless he’s learned how not to strike out. He has more power, but a far worse batting eye, than Frenchy.

Pointless argument folks!

Casey seems to be a nice guy and all, but can anyone name a 1B in the National League with less power? MLB? He then perhaps is not the best fit for a team with the least powerful outfield in the National league. Casey can pick them with the best of them and he certainly doesn’t make errors, but he’s just a good 1B.

If we are going to have a 1B on the team that is there for defense, then you would think we could do a little better than Kotchman. He doesn’t appear to have the range that some other First baseman in the league have. It’s one thing to not make any mistakes, it’s entirely different to make plays. Go to a bar in a town other than Atlanta and ask three people who the best defensive 1B in MLB is and I bet you $5 none of them say Kotchman
Casey Kotchmann isn’t a gold glove caliber First Baseman… that would be the guy we traded away to get him.

jbashby, three things…
1) Ask the ’86 Red Sox if defense at 1B is overrated.
2) Since the Brewers are still in it, they will NOT move Fielder.
3) Wily Mo Peña is a no unless he’s learned how not to strike out. He has more power, but a far worse batting eye, than Frenchy.

Sorry for the repeat comment… got a 500 Internal Server error.

go to a bar IN atlanta and i bet no one says Kotchman

pap

(1) Buckner was a good fielding firstbasemen,just happened at a really bad time…..and i think my 12 yr old nephew could catch that ball 9 times out of 10

(2) It is not likely, but the Brewers are desparate for SP

(3) Just would like to have someone on the bench for when we need the big fly….we have ZERO pop on the bench

Defense at first isn’t really overrated. If anything, I think it’s underrated. People don’t view 1B as a defense-first position, but when you think about the shear volume of plays a 1B has to make, they really don’t get the defensive credit they deserve. Of course, it depends on the type of pitching staff you’ve got. We’ve got 2 extreme fly-ball pitchers, 2 extreme ground-ball pitchers, and one that I haven’t quite figured out yet. While he can never make a HUGE play, being a consistently good 1B is going to save you a ton of runs. With ground ball pitchers you need a good defensive first baseman because a) a lot of throws get made to first on infield gb’s and b) you’ll have some assist chances. I’m personally happy with Kotchman at 1B because while he doesn’t hit for power he contributes in plenty of other ways. Usually hits for a decent average. Draws some walks. Gets on base. Makes the opposing pitcher work. Good 2-strike hitter. Good situational hitter. Good hit-and-run man. He’s a player that does a ton of little things right. And while he doesn’t have the power of a traditional 1B, if I were starting a team and I got Kotchman as my 1B, I wouldn’t be disappointed at all.

You guys seriously have to be kidding. Go to a bar in a city other than Atlanta who the best defensive First Baseman is in baseball and I bet ya’ $5 that none of ‘em say Casey Kotchmann

Yes, defense counts for something, but our OF finished dead last in power numbers last year. Then, in a stroke of genius, the Braves organization thought it would be wise to bring in a First Baseman that can’t hit for power. How many First Basemen in MLB have worse power numbers than Kotchman? If your defense is going to make up for that, then you should play at a ridiculous level. I will give you that he has not made an error with the team and he can pick ‘em with the best of ‘em, but is he is slightly above average when you consider his range
Casey Kotchman is not a gold glove first baseman… that would be the gella we gave up to get him.

That was weird Ignore my rewrite post.

I’m not going to disagree to the death. By the way, they play 162 games. Doesn’t make you sound exactly smart when you don’t even know how many games is in the regular season. Why would you pick first base of all positions? They have the most defensive touches of any position. The ten teams with the most errors only 2 have a record above .500 just to let some numbers show the impact. Don’t get me wrong, I would like Prince Fielder also. I just think you were foolish in saying defense is overrated. And if you read my first post you would see I said first in my initial sentence.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Why would the Brewers trade Fielder? They’re one game out. Casey is a pretty good defensive 1B and as much as I don’t want to agree with these guys, they’re right. He went on a tear for a few games, but he can’t do much more than hit doubles. Power needs to come from 1B and LF. UNFORTUNATELY, there weren’t many options in the offseason, so what were we supposed to do?

I would also not say things like “gave up” in regards to Tex. He wasn’t going to resign with the Braves.

sorry for the 165? 5 is under the 2 and was a type-o, thanks for pointing it out though

What makes you think a bar in Atlanta is the place to find the authority on MLB defense at 1B? From 2006-2008, Casey Kotchman was the 2nd most valuable defensive 1B according to +/- (behind Albert Pujols. And that’s just not fair). He’s one of the best defensive 1B in the game. Youkilis, Teixeira, Kotchman, and Pujols are all in the same conversation for best defensive 1B in the game.

1b on teams with winning records would be a more accurate assessment, as again, i didn’t say overall defense wasn’t important, seriously

I’ll go into this deeper when I get back to the hotel or during tomorrow’s entry. But in short, Kotchman doesn’t work as a first baseman in this power-starved lineup…Yes, he’s got a good glove. But I certainly wouldn’t say his glove is better than Adam LaRoche’s or even that much better than Mark Teixeira’s. Look I’m not going to totally discount the value a defensive first baseman can bring, especially to a team that has invested $60 million in a sinkerballer like Lowe. But five homers in 113 games w/ the Braves isn’t cutting it…His slugging pct. entering tonight w/ the Braves was .359.

You didn’t say overall defense wasn’t important but you did pick arguably the most important defensive position. As for your statistic suggestion, of the top 10 fielding first baseman in MLB 8 are on winning teams. The two that aren’t are Kotchman and Adam LaRoche.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

He is quite the doubles machine. I also agree with PWHjort’s notes on Kotchman’s avg. and such. I think he contributes to the team in the way he can, I am just saying that if I had to pick a team in the NL that he would be the worst fit for, it would have to be the Bravos.

I also like Kotchman (although he just hit into a double play). His defense is great, but everyone knows we need power and the weakest links are in the traditionally power heavy positions: 1B, corner OFs. If we had Adrian Gonzalez at 1B we would run away with the East. The .280 / 10 HRs / 60 RBI guys aren’t going to take us very far.

Hopefully there’s one thing we all can agree on – Winning 4 or 5 straight mean absolutely NOTHING if you lose the next 3 or 4. Going from 5 games out, to only 2… and then back to 5 again will make you want to trade underwear with a homeless person. The Braves are the kind of team that will continue to to play with your emotions the whole year. Regardless of any winning streak, we as fans need to realize that until a move or two is made to bolster the offensive production of this team they will continue to be lukewarm. They are and will continue to be a .500 team. Hands down. They are what they are.
And they’ll do it again. They’ll put together a string of 5 or 6 wins and everyone will get pumped up about the team – and then they’ll remember who they are and lose 4 straight.
A spade is unfortunately a spade.

Hopefully there’s one thing we all can agree on – Winning 4 or 5 straight mean absolutely NOTHING if you lose the next 3 or 4. Going from 5 games out, to only 2… and then back to 5 again will make you want to trade underwear with a homeless person. The Braves are the kind of team that will continue to to play with your emotions the whole year. Regardless of any winning streak, we as fans need to realize that until a move or two is made to bolster the offensive production of this team they will continue to be lukewarm. They are and will continue to be a .500 team. Hands down. They are what they are.

And they’ll do it again. They’ll put together a string of 5 or 6 wins and everyone will get pumped up about the team – and then they’ll remember who they are and lose 4 straight.

A spade is unfortunately a spade.

not sure about the double post up there… weird…

As far as Kotchman being a “doubles machine,” Prado has more doubles than Casey with about 70 less ABs. 18 doubles in 235 ABs, a machine does not make.

he meant Casey is a double play machine im sure

Dont get me wrong, I would take Kotchman over Sid Bream, but as previously stated, he just doesn’t fit in the Braves lineup as a difference maker in any slot in the batting lineup

Don’t get me wrong. I would love to have a power hitting 1B as much as anyone. The point I was trying to get across is that defense, regardless of position, is never overrated. It may be made up for with a lot of power but it is not overrated.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Well if that’s the case, then a good base coach shouldn’t be overrated, b/c it means something, but not quite as significant to winning ball games

Hate to interrupt the mature argument about Casey Kotchman, but this is so frustrating. We sweep the Phillies, then lose 2 out of 3 to the Nationals, and now one to the Cubs. I feel like if you were to put the AL All Star team against the Braves we would do amazing. Unfortunately we have to play the Nationals and Pirates. Most teams lick their chops at those matchups but not us.

And as for ESPN, almost every stat they threw out there about anything tonight was wrong. Brian McCann has been in the all star game before (remember him doing his usual and not blocking the plate?) So frustrating to watch these idiots.

Ok, it is ok to resume your argument now.

Bravomania I couldn’t agree more. And what I am really afraid of is that this is what we are looking at for the rest of this year and next.

Yes, I just read Bravomania’s post too. I think we all feel the same way.

JD – see my comment above at 9:41
If you come to terms with that – it won’t frustrate you as much. It is what it is. Don’t let them fool you. To be in any respectable conversation involving playoffs,a move or two needs to be made. Until that happens, only expect .500 ball. Don’t put yourself through the misery.

Guys, I would love to have Adrian Gonzalez too, but can we please stop with the posts suggesting we should go get him? He isn’t available. They’re not trading him. End of story. If they determine Kyle Blanks can’t play LF, they may think about trading him. But at this point, he’s off the table. And nobody is untouchable, but he’s such a fan favorite and a cheap young player under team control for awhile that acquiring him would require so much talent to the point where you’d have to be insane to acquire him. So let’s just drop it.

“Going from 5 games out, to only 2… and then back to 5 again will make you want to trade underwear with a homeless person. ” (Bravo)

Dude, that was so funny. HAHAHA. I can’t stop laughing.

Agreed PWH, Adrian is definitely a fan favorite. And also remember that he is going to the HR Derby, we all know how guys are after that thing. I would love to have him though. At this point, whatever can bring us out of this 4 wins, 5 loses thing would be greatly appreciated.

Wow, they just showed HR Derby winners since 2000, and Garret Anderson won in 2003. Would be great if we saw that kinda power again. Or just that dedication to be a champion.

PW – We would have to give up a lot for Gonzalez… but in this instance it would be worth it. The way our pitching is shaping up, my guess is that we have a 3-4 year window of solid pitching to get us to post-season baseball. With an aging Chipper Jones, and under-achieving Jeff Franceour, and a first baseman with as much power as Rafael Belliard… we have ZERO options for power and offensive production to match the solid pitching. Freeman and Heyward are both 2-3 years away from the show.
Adrian Gonzalez is in his mid twenties and would be that power solution. He’s young and worth every penny or every prospect he would require. Freeman, Vasquez, Medlen would all be worth while scenarios. The deal would work for both clubs. The Padres will not be able to sign him and they need to cut payroll.
Chipper Jones, Nate McClouth, and Yunel Escobar are and will not be enough to depend on the next few years… and until the Braves get a legitimate cleanup hitter that pitchers fear – we will continue to be a team that has great pitching but play .500 baseball.

i AGREE THAT WE WILL PLAY ABOUT 500 BALL THE REST OF THE YEAR.bUT WE COULD SET US UP NICELY FOR NEXT YEAR WITH ABLOCKBUSTER TRADE. LOWE HAS NOT HAD HIS NORMAL STUFF 3 OUT OF THE LAST 4 GAMES BUT HE ISKNOWN AS A MONEY PITCHER IN THE CLUTCH.TRADE HIM TO A TEAM THAT IS PRETTY SURE OF MAKING THE PLAYOFFS AND YOU GET YOUR POWER HITTER FOR NEXT YEAR WHETHER ITS 1ST BASE OR OUTFIELD.SET UP GREAT FOR 09.

i MEANT 2010

Here’s the thing though… if you want to replace Kotchman at 1B, who do you bring in?
There’s a lot of pining for Adrián González, but he’s the centerpiece of the team and they’ll need a lot more for him. I’ve heard Branyan, but personally I’m not fond of the idea of a low AVG, high SO HR hitter. (This year’s current BA is somewhat of a fluke IMO)
Do you move Prado to 1B full time and trade for a power-hitting 2B? None of the top power guys are gonna be available. before the deadline.
Maybe we leave Kotch on 1B and go for another position… OK, so let’s look at OF… all the teams that are still very much in it won’t be trying to deal until maybe the deadline. Also, Matt Holliday’s not looking attractive enough away from Colorado… maybe he needs to get out of Oakland, maybe not… but do we want to take a chance, especially since he makes so much?
Or do we stand pat this year and hope for the best and then, depending on Heyward’s development, give him a shot to win the job in ST?
That’s my thought process. I’d like to hear you guys’. Not just running guys out of town but bringing someone in good enough to supplant them in the first place.

Look, I don’t understand why everyone continues to bash so-called underperformance at the plate. When the Braves drafted him they never expected the guy to hit .300, it was more around .260 or .270. Now yes they did see a little more power coming from his bat, but take this into consideration, Turner Field has yeilded the least amount of homeruns in MLB since the start of the 2006 season. Maybe his BA is a little under par for what his stats should show, but to publicly say that Diaz or even G. Blanco should be starting full time over Francoeur is just idiotic on your part. Garret Anderson is a liability in the OF. What is the famous saying, Offense sales tickets but Defense wins Championships, So would someone please explain to me how sitting a Gold Glove OF improves your chances to win pennants? And even to a further extent, you never hear Kasey Kotchman getting critisized for hitting .265 I believe with 4 HR. First Base is suppose to be a run-producing spot, but we lack there as well. Dont single out probably the Fan Favorite in Atlanta when there are multiple places to point to the finger.

Hey Beaver.. the majority of this thread is focused on how Kotchman doesn’t fit into the lineup. Frenchy is one of my favorite players on the team, but while he isn’t hitting HRs, he also is not hitting doubles, triples, or anything with RISP.

And when I said if we had A Gonzalez we would run away with the East, I meant a Gonzalez-esque player. San Diego would be idiots to let that guy go.

I still think the best scenario would be trading Vasquez and Kotchman (or Vasquez/Franceour if anyone wants that) before the deadline to a contending team who has a big expendable bat. I would roll the dice and hope that Hudson rebounds from his surgery, or let him take Medlen’s spot in the pen until next season. Even if that doesn’t take us to the playoffs, we would have the funds to get someone in the offseason. Or maybe not. Who knows with this team.

It is time to place Mclouth in the clean up position. His power is more important to the Braves right now than his speed. They need to move either Prado or Escobar to lead off and place Mclouth in the 4 position and place McCann behind him.

Couldn’t agree more with mclouth at 4 and big mac at 5.

I think this should be our everyday line up:

Prado 2b
Kotchman 1b
Chipper 3b
McClouth CF
McCann C
Esco SS
Anderson LF
Diaz RF
Pitcher

This line up if pretty good, and gives up some power in the 4-5 spots

It doesn’t matter what lineup you throw out there. It is a .500 team no matter how you slice it. Nothing will change until we get a bat or two.

That line-up is too LOOGY vulnerable.

Just thinking of something…. Why not put david ross at first? He has the power…

Not at all, in fact alot of the braves lefties are hitting LHP really well this year, for example:

nate :.283
GA: .327

Mccann is the only one struglling vs LHP this year, and he will sit vs alot of LHP to give him his day off

I wouldn’t mind seeing Blanco start over Anderson. Anderson is hitting better of late but so is Blanco. Blanco has some speed and could really help produce runs. I think this lineup could work.
Blanco
Prado
Jones
McCann
McLouth
Escobar
Kotchman
Diaz
pitcher
The lineup is staggered left-right for the most part which could come in handy in the later innings. Maybe slide Escobar in front of McLouth. The 8 spot won’t see many good pitches and Diaz is a good bad ball hitter.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Better yet, why dont we put Mccann at first and let Ross catch every day. Mccann’s bat is too valuable. He could catch for 12 or 13 years or play first for 15 or more. His defensive skills are average behind the plate at best. Ditch Kotchman for a backup catcher, put Mac at first, and let Ross do the catching. Ross has proven he can produce. I also hope Johnson never plays second for us again.

You’re assuming Ross would be as good in a starting role as he’s been in a back-up role. And you’ll usually be dissappointed when you do that.

As far as hitting lefties, I realize that. There’s a difference between a Lefty starter or multi-out lefty reliever than a lefty specialist. And when you’re behind in a game late and you’ve got 4 lefties in a row (or 3 lefties and a switch-hitter that the opposing manager would rather see bat right-handed), that really neutralizes your scoring threat if they use a side-armed lefty specialist. Especially since that’s the only productive part of our line-up. Not all lefties are created equally.

good points, and they have validity obviously.

I would argue that isnt a big enough deal to not use the line up i stated

I don’t like the idea of moving McCann to first base. The reason McCann is so great is the simple fact that he is a catcher. If he moved to first base he is just another first baseman. Keeping him at catcher has him set for greatness. Him and Joe Mauer are redefining the position. Why change that?
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Amen to moneyballs, thats why Mac is so valuable, theres not alot of catchers like Mac in the league, and thank you for telling me why Ross wouldnt be great at first, but i do think we should go get A. Gonzo. Even tho we have to give up a bit, but thats what we need.

Well unfortunatly this isnt fantasy baseball, you cant just go out and get A. Gonzo!!

Someone suggested trading Vazquez/JF for A. Gonzo, because ‘they are looking to dump payroll’. This is obviously stupid as Vazquez and JF are on bigger contracts than A.Gonzo this year!!!!

Heck, if you guys want to float fantasy trade ideas, then i say we make a move for pujols, I think he would turn us into a contender :P, Maybe the cardinals would take a collection of our hopeless players based around JF and KJ.

Seriously though, enough of the stupid trade ideas, I feel a realistic conversation would be more interesting

A Gonzo is a good idea… they want a handful of ready to go prospects/good prospects. Well we’ve got them. We arent gonna send vazquez. its prob gonna end up going like medlin,freeman, and 1 more ready to go prosepct. Not JF,Vazquez, and KJ or something, they arent stupid.

whats his contract situation?

Also, we dont have the pieces they need. They are building a nice team there, I think it would take tommy hansen to get A gonzo? They dont have much room for extra salary, and they are gonna want young, cheap guys in return.

We cant offer esco as they are locked up at SS for the forseeable future, we have no MLB ready OF for them either. I cant see how this could work unless we include a 3rd team who we cud send vazquez+ prospects to

In fact, I guess if we included a third team who:

1, need a stud SP this year and next to compete
2, have some stud MLB ready prospects who have their way blocked to the majors
3, have payroll flexibility

Then we could send them a package based around Vazquez, and they could send the padres some stud young players on the minimum contract, who can compete in the MLB now or next year, and the padres could send us A.Gonzo?

The Padres are not trading Adrian Gonzalez. They won’t even discuss it.

maybe if we ask nicely? frank wren can take the padres front office out to a nice place, and get them drunk on expensive french wine and lobster?

Zidane – I didn’t mention Franceour and Vasquez to trade for Adrian Gonzalez. I just listed them as expendable to us if we wanted to move them – or at least that’s how I meant it to come across. I can see how you thought that I was suggesting that. However, “trade talk” at this juncture of the season is not “stupid”. It makes the most since.
Look, when Wren signed Lowe and traded for Vasquez before the season, he made the statement to Braves nation that he wanted to win this season and compete. He furthered this belief by trading more prospects for Nate McClouth. It became clear that this was not a rebuilding season. With that in mind, if he still wants to compete for the division – which is up for grabs to anyone who wants it with the exception of the Nats, then he needs to make a move YESTERDAY!!!
So – talking about trades to make this team better is not “stupid”. What is “stupid” is throwing different versions of the same mediocre sub .500 lineup out there on this blog or on the field of play… or discussing what kind of conversation Casey Kotchman can spark in an Atlanta area bar.
With an aging Chipper Jones, this team has absolutely NO answer for offensive power and run production until Heyward, Freeman, and Cody are up here mashing the ball. That won’t be for another 3 + years… and what happens if they don’t work out? (alah Frenchy?) However the pitching is HERE NOW. The ONLY way to succeed right now is to make a move for a legitimate offensive player that will be here for years to come. Even if we have to give up a ton to get him. The time is now. The pitching is now. The window is closing. As far as I’m concerned that’s the ONLY discussion worth having right now.
If not, get used to more mediocre baseball.

Luke Scott is currently in a 7 game hitting streak. He’s slugged .667 during that stretch. Just saying…

No i dont think discussing trade rumors is stupid, but suggesting getting A. Gonzo is. As I said in a later comment though, I think it could work if we involve a third team AND if the padres want to move him. This is where is falls down though. From what PHW suggests, A. Gonzo is not availible, its a simple as that.

I agree we need a big bat, at present I personally think we have far too much payroll being put into pitching. So to trade Vazquez would be a good idea, provided we get a big bat in return. I would be angry is wren got a bat that we dont have on contract for a number of years (like holliday). What about adam Dunn? Is that possible?

Include a 3rd team to send the nats some young studs, whilst we send that team vazquez? Might work?

I guess the orioles would want escober for scott?

Probably – I think we have an excess of quality pitchers that teams should be starving for. I would love to get a player like Justin Upton in the outfield. I think it would be a good move to offer Kris Medlen and some solid bullpen pitcher and a good offensive prospect to Arizona for Justin Upton… but I’m not sure if Arizona would be willing to do that. But he’s a stud! Wishful thinking.
Yeah – I think utilizing a third team may be necessary. I wish Houston wasn’t 3.5 games back because I’d love to take the Big Puma off their hands!

I definitely agree with bravomania that the discussions of the batting order doesn’t really do anything. A mediocre offensive team will be a mediocre (or bad) offensive team regardless of what order the guys are placed in. Research on batting order impact suggests that it’s either a) irrelevant, or b) minimally relevant to bottom-line success (wins and losses). Even if the Braves could change the order in a way that because of the batting order they got a couple of extra wins, we’d have no way of knowing. If the Braves changed the order and the team had another winning streak we’d have no way of knowing if it was because of a) the order, b) uptick in player peormance, or c) dumb luck/randomness. The sample space would be far too low. Changing the players is the much surer way of affecting outcome.

With that said, while I don’t think discussing a particular player as a trade candidate is absurd, choice of who is discussed will certainly make the conversation more “real” or “fantasy.” I’ve seen a lot of folks over the past month or two on here discuss Adrian Gonzalez, but all accounts is “he’s not available.” While I rarely believe that’s true, and I believe it even less with respect to Kevin Towers, the demand would be incredibly high. Players like Kelly Johnson, Jeff Francouer, and Garrett Anderson do NOT have any trade cache in deals for “off limits” players. Francoeur and Johnson have tanked their value, and GA is an old, cheaply signed, one-and-done guy that teams looking to the “future” have no reason to add for any reason. Any deal for a guy like A. Gonz. would have to include Escobar. He, quite frankly, is our most valuable trade commodity because he’s young, cheap, has a high ceiling, plays a premium defensive position, and is major league ready. I don’t think it would be a good idea to deal him due to lack of organizational depth at SS, but he’s the guy. Javy’s also got a lot of value right now because so many teams are searching for a starter, and if the Braves become convinced of Hudson’s health, he’s expendable. Really, I haven’t heard any great rumors involving our players and I’m just hoping by about July 25th or so teams have decided whether they’re in or out (including Atlanta) so that more viable options start to emerge.

Well said Tomatalk. The Braves are somewhat caught in between the proverbial rock and hard place. With Elvis Andrus sent away for the rental of Mark Texiera, Escobar is the only answer at short stop and can not be moved unless we can get a decent SS in return. Yet he is probably the first player mentioned from any discussion with any team. Wren won’t make the same mistake twice…hopefully. Pitching is what we have to offer. We have an abundance of starters. The problem is that only one starting pitcher not named Tommy Hanson is making less the 10 million/year. Kawakami is at 8.5 and I don’t think trading him will yield the kind of offensive production we need. That leaves Kris Medlen, Rafael Soriano, and Mike Gonzalez as the cheapest and most sought after. Then we’d have to let go of some of our prospects.
So the question is: Do we settle for what we have this year? Or do we make a move? Again – we are 2-3 years from having a true masher in Heyward and hopefully Freeman. And Chipper Jones is not a spring chicken…
So what happens?

wtf?? The padres would want esco for A.Gonzo???? They are locked up at SS for the next 15 years probably. They wouldnt take escober off our hands, unless they intened to take him and convert him, or trade him on fast. I doubt anyone would want to try and convert escober away from SS as his attitude would probasbly get in the way.

This is what i mean about fantasy talk, the padres would never want an escober for A.Gonzo deal because they have SS locked up with a young guy who they love

It’s funny that I just found out that Garret Anderson won a Home Run Derby. Very hard to believe.

A 3 team deal seems like the only way we can use Vazquez to bring in a bat from a non contending team. No weak team is going to take on vazquez, as good as he is pitching, because he wont be around when they hope to contend

Zidane:
If you were responding to my post, please go back and read it again. I said a player “like A. Gonz.” (i.e. a cheap, talented, plus power bat, that a team does not need to deal). My point was that Escobar is our biggest trade chip regardless of our intent or desire to trade him. Additionally, many of the rumors from the Peavy situation indicated that “yes” the Padres would be interested in Escobar regardless of Cabrera.

ok sorry i missed the word ‘like’. Anyway, as you say we cant trade him anyway.

3 team deal sending vazquez to a big market contender needing a SP, who then send some top prospects to a ‘seller’ team, who then send us a big bat.

This is a simple equation, any ideas??

Here’s the thing about Javy. If we’re looking to compete this year, dealing him is not a great idea. I like our starters as much as the next person, but he’s been overall our best starter this year and he’s got playoff experience. Hoping Hudson could come back in late August from Tommy John surgery and be effective is pretty far out there. 18 months is the more realistic timetable for a player coming back from Tommy John surgery to be both healthy and effective. Frankly, even with Javy I don’t think this team is really built to go anywhere even if we did make the playoffs. I, in a sick way, sort of hope the Braves fall out of contention a bit more before the deadline and might be willing to flip Javy to a competitive team in exchange for a really good young bat, even if he’s not quite major league ready. We could shed his salary and hopefully get a good player or two in return. I would also like to see us let Tim Hudson walk. I love Huddy, but $12 million for a guy coming off Tommy John doesn’t excite me. By letting those two go we’d have $12 million right there for the free agent market. Let Soriano walk, and you’ve got another $6 million. GA’s is another $2.5 million. You let those guys go and you’ve got around $20 million minus any increases in salary via arbitration. That would at least permit the Braves to make a legitimate run at a Jason Bay or Matt Holliday in the offseason and potentially have whomever we received in the Vazquez deal as well. A rotation of Lowe, Jurjjens, Hanson, Kawakami, Medlen would not be the worst in the league by any stretch of the imagination.

Dont forget that unless the braves front office lose their minds, then we will also lose frenchy and his 3.3 milion contract too. I agree with letting hudson walk, i hope we bring back one of soriano and gonzo to be our full time closer.

Thats gonna be more than 20 million for free agents.

I still think we should try and make a trade to get a bat under contract for a few years in a 3 team deal. This would both be a move for the now, and for the future

Either we keep Vazquez and make a playoff push and acquire a bat without using him or we sell, move Vazquez, and net prospects. I don’t think the organization is interested in moving their best SP and trying to contend in the same breath.

Dempster scratched from tonight’s start with broken toe…Zambrano will start in his place and Kevin Hart will start on Wednesday for the Cubs…Francoeur is back in the lineup tonight and Chipper is getting a much-needed rest…Chipper has hit .213 with one homer and nine RBIs in his past 25 games.

Conrad is starting at second base tonight…Prado at 3B.

So Prado playing 3rd, Conrad 2nd?

Jinx!

Why though, we would be improved slightly moving vazquez for a bat. We make sure the bat is under contract for a longish peroid, and this also helps us long term.

I know its a creative (stupid?) idea, but i think moving vazquez would basically reallocate payroll to where it is needed (offense). This can be done to improve the team now, but also an eye can be kept on the future.

Whenever a soccer team here claims their results arent up the scratch because they are ‘rebuilding’, they are widely criticized. The same applies to baseball , imo, well run teams should be able to keep one eye on the future and one eye on the present. Its a delicate balance ofcourse, but i dont think the braves should have to give up by trading vazquez. It can be a future and present move

wow, frenchy has good numbers vs zambrano

How about Javy Vazquez for Brandon Wood? The Angels could use another reliable starter, and they seem intent on keeping Wood burried. Wood’s the power righty bat I wouldn’t mind having play somewhere on our team.

Wood isn’t enough for Vazquez. If we punt and trade Soriano/Gonzalez, I could see Wood as the headliner of a package for one of them.

Yeah, I’d meant to say Wood as the centerpiece, but even after I wrote it I had reservations. I think my semi-man love of wanting to see what Brandon Wood could do in a full season of AB’s at the majors tends to get in the way.

….and his apparent “no trade clause” to the Western divisions. Please disregard my bad suggestion.

Whats Gary matthews contract like?

Horrible. 09:$10M, 10:$11M, 11:$12M

Plus: $0.5M assignment bonus if traded

For future reference, mlbcontracts.blogspot.com for contract information.

Or what about chris duncan or ryan ludwick?

ok thanks, wow thats a huge contract, almost worse than juan pierres!

Chris Duncan is eh.. And I’m a huge advocate of the Braves acquiring Ludwick. I don’t know that he’s available. The Cards would be selling low on him. I doubt that’s something they want to do. He’s experienced a huge slump since coming off the DL (.204/.278/.319), but was hitting .274/.339/.538 before the DL stint. He’s 5 for 17 (.294) this month with 3 walks (1 intentional) and only 2 strikeouts, but all 5 hits have been singles.

He also wouldnt be a free agent till 2012, and the cards has a decent array of OF. They seem to suck at 3rd base if i remember, with glaus being gone after this year. I guess that means giving them pardo or infante for ludwick. Maybe we could use infante + some mid level prospect?

I just don’t know what the Cards would want for him. Prospects they can flip to Oakland for Holliday perhaps? I don’t like the idea of trading Infante or Prado. They’re way more valuable to our club than on the trade market in my opinion.

I think this is a huge game today, because if Vazquez dominates (again) and we lose (again) then his trade value will go up and our chances of making the postseason will go down. The more this happens, the more likely it is the braves are going to trade him in my view. So I think there is alot riding on this game, with respect to where we go from here

Agreed… Especially if we lose and Philly wins. 5 games out just looks so much better than 6!

I agree with PWH and others we are not moving Vasquez unless Braves are 10+ out by July 31.

Out of the box idea and I know that teams in the same divison hardly ever deal in season, but if I was Wren I would contact the Phillies before they sign off on emptying their system for a possible Halladay acquistion and offer them Lowe for Jason Werth and a prospect.

Gives the Braves a RF with some pop for the rest of this season and all of 2010. Braves could piecemeal the rotation spot from Reyes, Medlen and others until Hudson can return.

Also gives the Braves a chance to free up some payroll for the future. Werth makes 2M this season(1M prorated) and 7M for 2010.

Lineup looks much better.

1.McClouth
2.Prado
3.Chipper
4.BMac
5.Werth
6.Esco
7.Anderson/Diaz
8.Kotchman

Think about it from the Phillies standpoint also. Unload the system and pay 22M for Halladay for a season and a half then have to back up the Brinks truck for his next deal

OR

Pick up Lowe with cost certainity and move Mayberry into Werth’s spot sand keep the minor league depth intact.

Won’t happen but it could work for both teams.

Lowe is virtually immovable due to his contract.

I think he could still be moved to a high revenue team desperate for pitching.

Phillies had some interest in him this off season.

While I do agree PWH that Lowe’s contract is not a bargain it still might be attractive to a team not wanting to unload all their minor league depth in a possible Holladay package plus sign him to a new contract after the 2010 season.

Halladay’s next deal will be 5 years and a 20M AAV.

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