Looking back on Teixeira trade

Things are obviously much quieter along the Braves trade front than they were both of the past two years, when they were dealing with the acquisition and departure of Mark Teixeira.
Still with the Phillies still playing a lead role in the daily developments that surround Roy Halladay, these final days leading up to the trade deadline could prove to be interesting for the Braves and their fans.
Or if Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi does stick with his self-imposed deadline, this trade-deadline excitement might simply extend for another 24 hours.
If the Phillies were to land Halladay, there’s certainly reason to believe that a third consecutive National League East pennant will appear in Philadelphia.  But his acquisition seemingly would have more of an effect on the potential of a second consecutive world championship.
When MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki asked if the Phillies should continue their pursuit of Halladay, Cole Hamels responded:
“It depends on if you want to try to win the World Series the next two years because that’s what he’s going to be here for,” Hamels said. “Winning the World Series or at least attempting to win the World Series the next two years will please us, please the organization and please the fans. You can’t really complain about that. I think it would be a step in a good direction.”

It appears the Jays need a multi-player package that is headlined by both J.A. Happ and Kyle Drabek.  The Phillies have balked at including both of these promising young pitchers.

But this certainly doesn’t mean that they won’t eventually opt to pull the trigger.  As Braves president John Schuerholz reminded me last week, he and his aides experienced a number lively debates before ultimately appeasing the Rangers with the five prospects that it took to bring Teixeira to Atlanta
With the Halladay trade talk in focus, MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan wrote a story looking back on the 2007 trade that made Teixeira a Brave.

As the years progress, you can twist and turn the analysis of trades in many different directions.  But at the end of the day, I don’t think you can truly bash a trade unless it’s one you bashed at the time it was completed.
My initial thoughts were that the Braves had given up too much for Teixeira.  But two years later, I actually find myself feeling that Schuerholz made a calculated gamble that was worth taking.
As has been pointed out countless times, with Yunel Escobar and Brian McCann in place, there was no room in Atlanta for Elvis Andrus and Jarrod Saltalamacchia.   This analysis has proven to be even stronger as Escobar continues to develop into one of the game’s top shortstops.
Matt Harrison might have been a nice Band-Aid last year, when the Braves rotation was wrecked by injuries.  But scouts and others who have had a chance to watch the soft-spoken left-hander on a regular basis don’t seem to be too high on his future.

Obviously the most consistent knock about the trade centers around the fact that the Braves included a 19-year-old right-hander, who had recorded 28 strikeouts and allowed 18 hits in 27 1/3 innings for their rookie level Danville club that year. 

Two years later, that 19-year-old is now the 21-year-old right-hander that the baseball world knows as  the flame-throwing Neftali Feliz.  Still even with a fastball that has reached 100 mph, Feliz’s future success at the big league level is clouded by the fact that he’s struggled to find consistent command with a secondary pitch. 

Feliz, who has been moved into a relief role with Texas’ Triple-A affiliate, and Andrus still have the potential be superstars at the Major League level. 

But even if they both reach this status, wasn’t it worth taking the gamble on the acquisition of a first baseman, who would hit .295 with 37 homers in the 157 games that you placed him in your lineup.

Forgettable anniversary:  Today marks the one-year anniversary of when Teixeira’s career in Atlanta essentially came to a close.  One year ago today, the Braves blew a five-run lead against the Phillies for a second consecutive day.

With those consecutive losses, Frank Wren faced the reality that his club wasn’t a postseason contender and had to find a club willing to exchange a Major League-ready first baseman for Teixeira.

It’s still hard to believe that the return the Braves gained from the Angels in exchange for Teixeira was limited to Casey Kotchman and Minor League reliever Stephen Marek.

But while hitting .328 with three homers and a .492 slugging percentage in his past 19 games, Kotchman has at least contributed to the offensive awakening the Braves have realized this month.   In the 104 games he’d previously played for the Braves, he’d hit .254 with four homers and a .349 slugging percentage.  

With Kelly Johnson back in the mix and at least showing some indication that he got himself right during his Minor League rehab assignment, Martin Prado’s versatility could prove to be even more important.  

During those days that the Braves are facing a top left-handed pitcher, Bobby Cox could choose to put Prado at first base and give Johnson the opportunity to prolong the success he’s found while facing southpaws during the past two seasons.
When asked who has been the most valuable offensive performer for the Braves this month, it’s easy to determine the distinction belongs to Yunel Escobar, who has produced a team-leading four homers, 19 RBIs, .461 on-base percentage and .662 slugging percentage.   His .369 batting average has been bettered only by the .370 mark that Matt Diaz has compiled in 11 fewer at-bats.
Chipper Jones (.294) and Nate McLouth (.259) are the only Braves regulars who haven’t hit at least .300 this month.   Still Jones’ 15 RBIs rank as the team’s third-highest total and McLouth is one of five players who have hit three homers.  The others being Jones, Brian McCann, Kotchman and Garret Anderson.  


Hey Jurjjens4nlcy, I too went to the games up in milwaukee and I have to say the most encouraging thing was seeing infante out there fielding groundballs and taking bp. It didn’t look like anything’s bothering him which is great. I also saw that moron wearing that favre vikings jersey although it was pretty funny haha, he was right above from where I was sitting. Where were ur seats at? i was in 126 saturday and 127 sunday.

Looking back at the trade the only pieces that really hurt are Feliz and Andrus. Saltalamacchia was blocked by McCann and Matt Harrison appears to be having some substantial arm problems. Andrus didn’t really have a spot with Escobar in front of him but he could be playing second right now. Although Prado isn’t exactly hurting Atlanta. Feliz does hurt though, real bad.

Couldn’t agree more about the Tex trade Mark. I was happy when they made it, and I’m still glad they pulled the trigger for him. He knew what we had and what our needs were. If our bullpen hadn’t blown every game that year, we would have won the pennant and John Smoltz would have been a 20 game winner. People have been saying on this thread that it was the worst trade in baseball history… completely wrong.
Mark – what are your thoughts on Heyward being called up in September?

And also remember that we thought we could keep Tex here for the long haul, although he is a Borass client. If Giambi wasn’t on his way out of the door in New York, we might have been able to resign him. Obviously the makeup of our rotation would be MUCH different at the moment if that had happened.

I think it was a great trade because it gave the Braves a chance to do something. We got Kotchman in return the following year, so you have to include the entire trade. I don’t see why the Braves are not going after Gonzalez out in SD. He is locked in for the next 2 years at 4.75 million next season and $5.5 million in 2011. That is on the cheap considering his stats with our lineup. I think he had 22 HRS before the All-Star break and now teams have stopped pitching to him. He would be a great pick-up and I would ship Kelly & Kotchman and a pitching prospect.

Tex trade still gives me nightmares. Wasn’t as bad as everyone makes it out to be. But it was still bad. The thing that I didn’t like about the trade was we upgraded the wrong area. We were sending out the likes of Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle, Kyle Davies, etc. 3 out of every 5 games. Apart from Smoltz and Hudson, we had no rotation. I’d have preferred for us to acquire a front-line SP in 2007. But what’s done is done. It’s not that the prospects will come back to bite us. They probably will, but that’s not the point. I feel like we could have allocated our resources a bit better.

This is far from the worst trade in baseball history. How does filling the needs of both teams make it a bad trade? This was anything but a bad trade.

If San Diego wanted Escobar and Hanson plus two for Peavy, who they had to move, they are going to want every player whose name they can spell in trade for Gonzalez. Towers would also need guaranteed membership in the Witness Relocation Program because the city of San Diego would be after him, pitch forks and torches in hand.
The guy is signed and is basically the only face of the franchise for them. Peavy lost that status this off season. Their attendance is reported at an all time low, and it would cost them almost every remaining season ticket if they dumped a guy the entire planet knows they have on the cheap.
Don’t look under your pillow for Gonzalez, the Power Hitter Fairy won’t be leaving him tonight.

Haha. The Power Hitter Fairy. Love it. We need a few visits from him.

No doubt, but he obviously lives up east, and Mother Nature hasn’t been approving any travel requests lately because of the economy.
Maybe next season when things start to improve.

Speaking of the power hitter fairy in the north east… I saw a report on ESPN that Boston is talking with the Red Sox about Adrian Gonzalez… So it seems Towers is open to the deal. But with Escobar, Hanson, and Heyward being untouchable… there’s no way he would accept anything else from us.

Wishful thinking on Jason Stark’s part at best. It ain’t happening. Conjecture at best. Buster must have told him to run with that at the water cooler or latte machine. They needed something to spice up a very quiet week after they had hyped it as such a huge moment in the season. ESPN trying to make news instead of report it again, that’s all.

I’ve seen Pawtucket a number of times. There is nothing there that is going to pry Gonzalez out of Towers hands. Not to mention they already have too many 1Bs as it is. LaRoche would have to be included or released, and SD has no use for a guy that is less than half the player they are trading, at double the price tag.

I’m just wondering why Kotchman hasn’t hit more HRs. I might be mistaken, but it seems that when he does get one he kills it, like he did yesterday.

For the most part Kotchman might be the best feilding 1st baseman in the NL. I think the way that his bat is producing is only a plus. If im not mistaken I think he is still yet to commit an error this year, although the lollipop he threw in game four of the giants series should have been but I think they scored it a hit. Either way the lineup is solid and will only get better from here on out, barring a catastrophic injury.

What about trading with the A’s to get Justin Duchscherer…they have been reported to be willing to give him up for a modest prospect (Cody Johnson, Brandon Hicks?) he has been a reliable arm for the A’s when he has been healthy. The Braves could use him not as a reliever and then work him back towards being a starter in the future

dingo.. Kotchman hasn’t committed an error since he came to the Braves last year.

braves10.. Duchscherer is on the 60 day DL and apparently he had back problems during his rehab to go along with his surgically repaired elbow. That’s the extent of my knowledge of him. Looking at his numbers from last year, the A’s would be idiots to get rid of him for a mid grade prospect, even if his health is a liability at this point.

Casey seems to pick his spots recently and change to a more uppercut swing when he is looking at a possible HR opportunity. He didn’t seem to do this in the past, so he must be getting comfortable now. His regular swing seems to keep him more on top of the ball which has him spraying the line drives over short and down the line, with the occasional shot around the foul pole. I’m good with him picking his spots like that more than just going for broke on every at bat. We need both Casey Kotchmans from time to time. The last two he has hit were the first two I’ve seen him lift on purpose, not just when he drops the bat head on a ball low and in. That is a nice adjustment on his part.

If by middle August we have Carlyle and either KK or Huddy in the bullpen, is that enough depth out there? Bennett coming back would be a bad move. Maybe they can keep him in Gwinnett until September roster expansions.


Has anyone noticed how Frenchy is doing in NY? Looks like 14 RBI’s 2 homers and a .327 batting average. Along with getting his great defense, this might be the best thing that happened to the Metropolitans all year. Too bad he didn’t get it going in ATL.

Yeah, Rother talking to Frank today, I got the sense that they probably won’t be making a move. That’s just a guess. But when asked about potential acquisitions, he talked about the returns of Huddy, Buddy and Infante. While Infante’s return will be welcomed, we can’t necessarily expect him to immediately resume providing the type of production that was present when he broke his hand. But with Prado providing his versatility and Church capable of occasionally spelling McLouth in center, they can at least be patient with Infante.

I do not think that the Teix trade was terrible. If the Braves win at least the wild card, no one would have batted an eye. I do agree an upgrade in pitching was needed as well. Poor Smotlzie and Huddy, they had the task of having to win every start (which I think that they pretty much lived up too, wow). Salty obviously would not have started above Mac, Elvis would not have overtaken Escobar (or Renteria at the time), Harrison would not beat out Hanson by a long shot (probably not even Medlen), and I feel that the other two pitchers were expendable for a hitter like Mark. Things just did not work out while he was in Atlanta. A little change here or there and everyone would have left happy. You can’t fault the Braves for making a big time move to put them over the hump. BTW, it is good to hear the Frenchy is doing well, hope he has finally figured out his swing (however, I feel that is doubtful).

When Hudson returns during the final week of August, I’d say there’s definitely a chance that we’ll see Kawakami come out of the pen. Like with Infante, we don’t know exactly what to expect when Hudson returns. But at the same time, we don’t know how long Kawakami’s shoulder will remain strong. It has bothered him throughout the season and he shut things down after compiling 117 innings last year. He’s already exceeded the 100-inning mark, which simply means the Braves will definitely be monitoring him on a start-to-start basis…With his return, Buddy should at least start seeing some of those late-inning assignments the Acosta has been provided over the past couple of weeks. Just having an extra arm down there that Bobby trusts will provide dividends down the stretch.

Mark, on your article about the Braves standing pat you should check out the 5th paragraph, line 3. Just looking out for ya.

Mark, when you wrote about puting Kelly in the lineup to face lefties I belive you were assuming we had a manager who had enough sense to do that, he hasn’t done it so far even though the stats are there for anyone to see that he hits much better against lefties but as I have said many times, Cox is a slow learner, not retarted, just takes him a couple years to figure things out.

There’s something always hilarious when people spell words like “intelligence” wrong. In this instance, pana provides you with “retarted.” (Not a knock against you. I just find it funny.)

viva i’ll bet you won the nationa spelling bee last year. I may be a bit retarded mysely but i’m not manageing the atlanta braves.


Dont mind Viva. He doesn’t get any so he has to take it out in the blog.

…..enters billreef….

Huddy looked good. 4 shut out innings in Gwinnett tonight.

Tim Hudson’s final line from his rehab start at AAA Gwinnett: 4.0 IP, 4 H (3 1B, 1 2B, all on grounders), 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K, 41 pt, 27 st

Can we make a move before the deadline and send billreef to the Mets blog for metschick99?

And Groundouts: 8 (1 from a DP) Flyouts: 2

I went to the Saturday and Sunday games. I got a couple autographs and had a great time.

I know the Braves want to free up some room for a big hitter either at first base or the outfield but Can you imagine a rotation next year of 1) Tim Hudson 2) Derek Lowe 3) Javier Vazquez 4) Tommy Hanson 5) Jair Jurrjens???

That makes my mouth salivate just thinking about it…

What about seeing about a trade for Kenshin this offseason or putting him in a long relief role that nobody has really taken control of since Jeff Bennett, Buddy Carlyle & Jorge Campillo all went on the dl?

Don’t trade away all the pieces of a great rotation that we had to build almost from scratch this off-season…

As Braves fans, lets sign a petition if the team considers trading away Vazquez or Huddy. If we fall out of contention next year, I guarantee we can still get a monster package of at least 2-3 prospects for either one of these front of the line starters.

Bravo, any low-level blogger would do.

BravoInsanity and Bobby Cocks is my Daddy:

I stopped by your snivelers anonymous meeting and they said you had fallen off the wagon. I really love living in FL. I can get primo tickets for Braves games and I don’t run the risk of running into the “little boys in their daddy’s house” bloggers. I’ll be at the games this week, whine amongst yourselves.

Ok, when did the gotta act like little kids on the playground **** start? I used to read the comments on this blog for smart (ok maybe thats a slight exaggeration) baseball conversation from all of you armchair managers. Now you guys are acting like this? Jeez….

Yeah, long as billfreef keeps talking like a little drama queen, I’m not gonna talk on the blogs anymore. Hope PWH,Viva, and Jurrjens will keep on puting up respectable threads on here. Till then, goodbye guys.

bravesfan0224 – with all due respect, you left Rother off that list of respectable threads. He’s been here from day 1 and has always had a great point of view… I’ll let it slide that you left me off…lol
billreef – I live in Florida too. Let me know if you’re ever in Jacksonville. I’ll buy you a beer… if you’re old enough to drink.
Man, I’m jacked up about the series with the Fish! We need to keep winning series, but a sweep would feel pretty good too.

Anybody ever been to a party, where you are having a blast and then that one guy walks in and the entire party just goes to hell. Not saying any names but I am pretty sure that party wouldn’t past the smell test.

This truly is ridiculous. Whether the people are 8 or 88 there should be no bickering like this. Just stop with all the nonsense and get over it. Please.

I’ll go ahead and apologize for my “low-level blogger” comment- it was purely meant to be humorous, but it only added fuel to the fire.

That’s great news about Hudson. If only his comeback had come a month earlier, we may have been able to deal from our position of strength (someone in our starting rotation) to perhaps upgrade our outfield a little. There’s too much uncertainty with anyone returning from Tommy John.

If we stop now, we’ll never get to discuss picking up Jim Edmonds for the stretch run…..
Then what will our old friend do?

I sent that at 8:51, and look what time it shows. This is going at 8:53. That explains the order issues lately.

Anybody gonna be at the game tonight? I’ll be in the outfield. A section called the Fish Tank. $9 tickets

Bravo, I may have asked you this before, but did you you go to high school in Jacksonville? One of my good friends played baseball at Terry Parker (I think that’s what it’s called) High School.

Just saw Atlanta checked in on Freddy Sanchez. I’m not hating the idea but I think adding a reliever would be a better idea. Sanchez makes too much and there are similar players already on the roster.

I’m not buying the Sanchez rumor.

Some Thoughts:

Have the Braves signed their top draft pick Mike Minor?
What are the Braves gonna do for a closer next year? No one seems that concerned that Mike Gonzalez & Rafael Soriano may walk. Then we would be in a position much like we were when we had to put Chris Reitsma in as closer.
Where’s Chipper’s Avg gone? a 70 pt dip in 1 season is a big indicator. Can he still keep up with the major league fastball? I’ve seen him strike out this year at an alarming rate.
If Jason Bay, Manny Ramirez, Vladimir Guerrero, or another big bat goes into free agency this off season whom should the Braves pursue & why?

Chipper seems to be striking out more than usual but he still doesn’t often. He has just 45 Ks on the year to his 61 walks. As for the outfielders in that group obviously Bay would be the best option. I think he stays with Boston though. Ramirez will probably stay in L.A. and Guerrero isn’t producing the way he used to. He is mostly a DH right now and hasn’t even played in 50 games this year. Durability is definitely an issue at this point in his career.

wingatsm Your are by far the dumbest person i have ever meet. I know i been saying the braves should go after both halladay and holiday but i know for damn sure if next year manny vlad or bay become free agnets next year the Braves cant sign anyone bc they have a cap now unless for some reason between now and the offseason someone buys the Braves expect them to be a 2nd or third place team unless The Phillies, Marlins, or the Mets go into a slump to end all slumps they as in the Braves will never make the playoff. Or they can fire Bobby and maybe a miracle could happen or pigs will fly out of my butt.

Wingatsm, I have to agree with everything that moneyball said in his above comment. I’ll add that I don’t think Chipper’s drop in BA indicates anything more than he is getting a little older and has been dinged up a bit this year. Plus, I think last year was just one of those years where everything came together for him and he ended up with a career year BA-wise. I definitely think that if we move to upgrade our outfield and/or first base power during the offseason (as we should), it will more than likely come through a trade rather than free agency. From that group of FAs, Bay is definitely the most attractive option to me but I don’t think that we can afford him. There’s no way that we can offer him as much as Boston can. As for your question about the closer position, this is something that has been bothering me of late as well. I’m glad Soriano is having such a monster year-God knows where we would be without him, but at the same time he has effectively driven up his market price at the same time. I hope we’ll be able to afford to bring him back (and Gonzalez too) because I would hate to see us in a Reitsma-like position again as you mentioned…

I don’t buy the Freddie Sanchez thing either…why in the world would we be trying to get him with Prado playing the way he is right now?

Bravo, I forgot to mention you too, you put up respectable threads, and I’m pretty sure I didn’t mention like 3-5 people.
Thought- I see us staying pat at the deadline.

I’d be surprised if we made a move as well. We have Hudson, Bennett and Carlyle all needing to be brought back or “processed” as possible pitching options, and Infante is going to be activated in a couple weeks.
If they decide to give Heyward a look in September as well, there really isn’t any need to add from outside until they sort out all of the additional options from within.

It is going to get pretty tight on the 25 man roster, and even the 40 man may be adjusted.

Omar Minaya wins GM of the Year? presented by Mad TV?.

I’m as excited for the Florida series as I’ve been for any series in awhile.

On a completely different note, did anyone feel a little sadness seeing Jim Rice inducted into the Hall, whilst Dale Murphy still garners so little attention? I wonder if that ship has sailed, or with the growing frustration of PED’s, writers will give players like Murphy another look.

Murphy’s trophy case would point to him being in the Hall. His Black and Gray Ink also point to that. Even as a Braves fan when I look at his final statistics they just don’t scream HOF. His average is mediocre at best. Getting that 400 HR would have helped a lot. I honestly think he is a borderline player. If they let borderline players in then the Hall of Fame will lose it’s significance. The Braves fan in me wants him in but the baseball fan has his doubts.

I agree that Murphy is borderline. However, one good peripheral as to whether or not you’re a HOF’er is whether or not you can win an MVP in a year that wasn?t your personal best. Murphy won the MVP in 1982 and 1983. His best 5 years are as follows: 1987, 1983, 1985, 1984, 1982. If you can win the MVP in your 5th best year you’re probably a HOF’er.

Yes. Fenway Park is gold for right-handed hitters. You pull a ball that’s a routine fly ball in any other park, hits off the green monster, and it’s an extra base hit. Or you’re a little early on a pitch, go the other way, routine fly in any other park? Home run.

Good point. And I totally agree that he’s borderline, but so was Rice.

Rice: .352; .502; 382 (OBP, SLG, HR) 1 MVP, 0 Gold Gloves

Good point. And I agree that he is borderline, but so was Rice.
Rice: .352; .502; 382 (OBP, SLG, HR) 1 MVP, 0 Gold Gloves

Murphy: .346; .469; 398 (OBP, SLG, HR) 2 MVP, 5 Gold Gloves.
Also, you have to take into consideration the difference in ballparks. Fulton County vs. Fenway. I know Fulton County wasn’t exactly Petco, but it certainly wasn’t Fenway friendly.

While I was writing that the entire time I was comparing him to Rice. Personally I wouldn’t have voted in Rice. I probably wouldn’t vote in Murphy either if I had a vote. Don’t get me wrong, he was an outstanding player. But I think that if you don’t instantly think HOF when a player is mentioned they probably aren’t one. If you let borderline players in then you will have a bunch of really good players in. The Hall of Fame is reserved for the best of the best to ever play. Not for the really good players.

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