LaRoche deal is completed

ATLANTA   —  The Braves have completed a deal that brings Adam LaRoche back to Atlanta to serve as their first baseman.   

Just before Friday afternoon’s Trade Deadline, the Red Sox agreed to send LaRoche to the Braves in exchange for Casey Kotchman.    

LaRoche, who was acquired by the Red Sox in July 22 trade with the Pirates, has hit .248 with 13 homers and a .446 slugging percentage this year.   He hit a career-high 32 homers with the Braves in 2006 and was traded to Pittsburgh during the following offseason in exchange for Mike Gonzalez.  

With LaRoche, the Braves receive the power that Kotchman wasn’t able to consistently provide until recently.     He’s hit eight homers since debuting with the Braves on July 30, 2008 and four of them have come this month.   

The Braves will receive cash considerations from the Red Sox.

89 Comments

i do not like this deal! kotchman is too good to lose. esp for rochy i mean he was good while he was here but there was a reason he was shipped off…

Yeah I just heard it was basically LaRoche for Kotchman straight up.

Adam’s numbers aren’t great this year, but he’s a great second half hitter.

It’s official, straight up swap: http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/16357804
Makes no sense. I hate the move.
Kotchman 2009 RAR: 8.9.
LaRoche 2009 RAR: 4.5

LaRoche doesn’t hit for the average Kotchman does but he has a lot more power and plays excellent defense. It’s an alright trade.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

He was shipped because we got Mike Gonzalez (and Lillibridge) for him and our bullpen was awful at the time. We also thought that bum Scott Thorman could’ve been the everyday first baseman.

If it’s Kotchman for LaRoche, the Braves better be getting something else with it.

extremepacifist,
No way that package lands either Bell or Gonzalez alone. Or even comes close to it.

Trading for Adan LaRoche is a mistake.
LaRoche is an older slower version of Casey Kotchman.
LaRoche and Kotchman will give you the same results:
15 HR’s, maybe…
80 RBI’s, if your lucky…
.280, in a good year…
slow runner, a double play waiting to happen…
mental lapses on defence…
The Braves should make a deal with San Diego for power hitting first baseman Adrian Gonzalez,
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7054
and Set up/closer RHP Heath Bell.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7418

The Padres would take three top prospects and few veterans.

P Kyle Medlen
OF Brandon Jones
P Steve Merek
P Kenshin Kawakami
1B Casey Kotchman
2B Kelly Jonson

Not sure that I understand this one at all. While LaRoche may have more power, Kotchman is a more well-rounded hitter and a better defensive first baseman. Plus, Casey has just started to really rake here recently. I’ve noticed that he’s developed a bit of a power stroke where he’s undercutting the ball a little more and he’s been one of our more consistent hitters this past month. I like LaRoche, but I would have much rather seen us go out and get a reliever of some sort…

Scott Thorman swung as hard as he could at every single pitch. If you ever stood next to him you could easily see he does not need to swing hard to him a home run. The guy was huge.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

I just heard the the braves made this deal for casey and adam….this is horriable.

Padres wouldn’t make that trade. And LaRoche already has 13 HRs on the season. I also think the trade is pretty bizarre since Adam is more expensive. I would assume that the Sox are gonna use Kotchman in another trade or think that he would be better off the bench than LaRoche.

The way I look at it, the Braves trade a good fielding first baseman, with decent average and limited power (Kotchman) for a good fielding first baseman, with good power with a decent average. They have plenty of gap hitters so parting with Kotchman to get more of a thumper in LaRoche makes sense to me.

I do not understand this at all…..What did we gain from this, we would have been better off not doing anything…

Wonder if Adam is gonna start the game tonight. The Sox are in Baltimore at the moment.

I just heard the the braves made this deal for casey and adam….this is horriable.

Another crazy lateral move from Wren. I think this guy does deals just to do deals. Makes him feel important. Well at least we are recycling these days.

Why can’t he find a 2B who hit’s about .225 and drops the baseball in late innning pressure situations. We would probably find somone to trade for him.

The Red Sox will LOVE having Kotchman on their bench. Defense, lh-bench bat, good approach, he’s exactly the kind of guy they like.

Makes no sense though contract-wise. Casey is arbitration eligible for 2 more years. LaRoche is a FA after this season. Red Sox won this one big time.

I think it’s a weird trade, but Adam fits into the lineup better than Casey did, and he’s also an excellent fielding first baseman. A possible 15 HRs from the 1B position sounds a lot better to me than the 5 more that Casey would bring.
It also strengthens the bench and allows us to put Prado at 1B when there’s a lefty on the mound.

I do not understand this at all…..What did we gain from this, we would have been better off not doing anything…

In LaRoche’s 5 full seasons he has hit 80 RBI 3 times. One time he didn’t he had 78. In those 5 seasons he has hit 20 home runs 4 times. He won’t hit for average and he strikes out but he gives power. No way in hell anyone gets Gonzalez. Asking price was triple what the Jays wanted for Halladay. He had one mental lapse that was memorable. That was also when he wasn’t allowed to take his medicine for I think what was ADHD. That’s a legit problem.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

I think it’s a weird trade, but Adam fits into the lineup better than Casey did, and he’s also an excellent fielding first baseman. A possible 15 HRs from the 1B position sounds a lot better to me than the 5 more that Casey would bring.

The way I look at it, the Braves trade a good fielding first baseman, with decent average and limited power (Kotchman) for a good fielding first baseman, with good power with a decent average. They have plenty of gap hitters so parting with Kotchman to get more of a thumper in LaRoche makes sense to me.

I think it’s a weird trade, but Adam fits into the lineup better than Casey did, and he’s also an excellent fielding first baseman. A possible 15 HRs from the 1B position sounds a lot better to me than the 5 more that Casey would bring.

thanks wren for trying to blow this for us!

thanks wren for trying to blow this for us!

extremepacifist ur a dumba** bc laroche has better power then kotchman buy yes they should take adam in a package to san diego for a.g but not kk.

laroche
kj
medlen
jojo reyes
mike gonazalez to san diego for

heath bell
adrain gonzalez

thanks for trying to blow the rest of the season Wren

thanks for trying to blow the rest of the season Wren

Well you got to understand that we are trading our 7-8 hitter with a great glove for a guy that can hit 5-7 with pop and a really good glove. Kotchman is not really going to play that much in Boston in my mind, but I guess the Braves expect to resign LaRoche in the offseason at a cheap price since he’s only hitting around .250. I don’t think we are going to LOSE a whole lot out of this deal unless we do not resign LaRoche at all, which could happen. Also, I am surprised that Bennet and Norton were not traded. Also, I thought we were looking at an arm for the bullpen, but I guess with Hudson coming back, the pitchers will already be crowded in the dugout.

Canizares is playing 1B tonight, nice to have AAA nearby

Personally I liked this trade, we get some power, maybe 15HR from him. He knows McLouth, his been here before, and he will be a improvement from Kotchman offensively. Overall I like this trade, better then the Church/Frenchy trade. I have a feeling his gonna end up with aleast 25+ HR with aleast 80 rbis.

crewsin- Bennet was released yesterday.

I’m sure the cash considerations made a difference in the deal. . . .

From what I remember, LaRoche was extremely well liked in the clubhouse. He’s good friends with Chipper and a few other guys who were on the 2007 team. I’m sure that might have had something to do with it. Well, that and the fact that he can hit 5-7 in the lineup. Maybe 4th if he starts to heat up. And like I said before, he’s an extremely good second half player. He always starts the year slowly, so I think this was a good move.

Maybe this allows us to keep Vazquez and Hudson for next year.

McLouth CF
Prado 2B
Jones 3B
McCann C
Escobar SS
Anderson LF
LaRoche 1B
Church/Diaz RF

That is not too bad of a lineup, especially considering that the Braves are really heating up with power numbers, yes they did lose two games in a row, but they are definately hitting with more power as compared to the 1st of the season

Unless the CC is around 2-4 million dollars, I might strangle myself tonight. Dammit Wren… I was thinking you were doing a great job at GM until now…ugh.

I cannot believe people are complaining about this trade! Here’s a question for you: When did the Braves start doing well? When Kotchman started hitting homeruns, the only thing is Kotchman hitting 5-10 HRs a season is normal. LaRoche hits 20 HRs a season and that’s normal. We don’t need a good defensive first baseman, we need POWER and LaRoche brings that.
The Red Sox got screwed on this deal. They have no where to put Kotchman, their own website said that. Come on people, stop complaining just for the sake of complaining.

bravesblogbyjake – “We don’t need a good defensive first baseman, we need POWER and LaRoche brings that.”

Except, and people forget this, LaRoche is no slouch at 1B either.

I like it. The only thing I don’t like is our first baseman next year. Sure as hell ain’t going to be Freeman.

Not too sure about this one. How old is Adam? Casey is 26 – 27 still a very young player, and I think coming into his own. I believe his power numbers will increase wherever he plays. He is in my opinion the best glove at first base in the NL. He has been raking recently. The bottom of our line up has been especially productive lately, and Casey (and Frenchy’s departure) have been the two main reasons why. It might work out, though, we shall see. So long Casey, we hardly knew ye.

I seem to remember a lot of people complaining a lot about Casey up to 2 weeks ago. I had no clue he was such a fan favorite.
How is getting a guy who has more power and has TERRIFIC second half numbers a bad thing?

Another crazy lateral move from Wren. I think this guy does deals just to do deals. Makes him feel important. Well at least we are recycling these days.

Why can’t he find a 2B who hit’s about .225 and drops the baseball in late innning pressure situations. We would probably find somone to trade for him.

This stat I DO NOT like. Adam has struck out 81 times this year. Casey just 28 times. That is nearly 4 -1. Ouch.

extremepacifist ur a dumba** bc laroche has better power then kotchman buy yes they should take adam in a package to san diego for a.g but not kk.

laroche
kj
medlen
jojo reyes
mike gonazalez to san diego for

heath bell
adrain gonzalez

extremepacifist ur a dumba** bc laroche has better power then kotchman buy yes they should take adam in a package to san diego for a.g but not kk.

laroche
kj
medlen
jojo reyes
mike gonazalez to san diego for

heath bell
adrain gonzalez

The strikeouts are part of LaRoche’s game. He has a long, looping swing. Great for power not so much for contact. Kotchman’s swing on the other hand is short which cuts down on K’s. LaRoche traditionally heats up in the second half so let’s let this play out before rejecting it.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

I also liked the fact that LaRoche almost went to the Mets, and would have been a big plus for them since Delgado is hurt. Maybe we took him in spite.

I seriously don’t get why people are complaining. We wanted more power, well Wren got us more power. This isn’t his best trade, but it’s an upgrade. LaRoche hits with power and has good defense. I’d rather have a guy who hits .250 25hr with 80 rbis than a guy with .280 12hr and 65 rbis. As I remanber we were saying that Kotchman can’t hit anything over the fence unless its a little league park, and now people are complaining we got a guy who has proven that he can hit for power,drive in runs, with above avg defense. Guys, seriously, look at the stats. Plus LaRoche is probably warming up the seat for Freeman for about in 2 years. Look closely, and you’ll see LaRoche is almost like McLouth without the speed.

Well said bravesfan0224, vivabeta, and moneyball!!

This is not a good future move…
LaRoche will be too expensive to resign and Freeman is not ready yet. Don’t even say Greg Norton’s name…
Prado COULD play 1st full time, but Kelly would have to play 2nd unless Infante plays 2nd.

This also makes the Teixeira trade even worse for us since we got Kotch because he was signed for a while.

I think this trade goes beyond the Braves need for more power. There HAS (lets give Wren the benefit of doubt) to be another aspect that we aren’t privy to. What that is, I haven’t a clue. Does anyone know whether LaRoche qualifies as a type B FA?

Darion, Get over the Tex trade. That was one of the worst trades for this franchise if not the worst. Im pretty sure we are gonna sign LaRoche, and if he doesn’t we still got Canizares to play for us next 2 year or less, and his shown that he can play in the majors. So, don’t get all crazy about nothing.

BCIMF, Ill check

I can understand both sides of the argument. And I think it best to analyze things at seasons end. However, right now I feel what we gain in some areas (power, etc.), we lose in others (defense, average). Adam, traditionally, does better in the 2nd half, but Kotchman had been doing much better this 2nd half himself. I find the move curious, because it comes at a time when our offense seems to be gelling and then we move Kotchman for LaRoche, who isn’t an apparent upgrade. That said, I welcome Rochie back and hope he continues his 2nd half success.

I believe so, so we’d get a compensation pick

Nope actually LaRoche missed the Type B cut, but its still possible for him to make it right? Now that he moves back to the NL.

Finally some people are accepting this. It’s really frustrating to see Wren contradicted after every thing he does. If you step back and look at what he has done he was put the Braves in a great position to win. They are 4 back in the WC after greatly underachieving in the first half. Atlanta has a phenomenal pitching staff and now they have added a power bat. People hated Kotchman and wanted power and now that he got traded for power he is suddenly amazing. I’m starting to think a lot of people aren’t really fans. Real fans stand behind their team after every decision and not just when all is good. \http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

“Darion, Get over the Tex trade. That was one of the worst trades for this franchise if not the worst. Im pretty sure we are gonna sign LaRoche, and if he doesn’t we still got Canizares to play for us next 2 year or less, and his shown that he can play in the majors. So, don’t get all crazy about nothing.”

I am over it. I am saying it just keeps getting worse and worse. I’m pretty sure, heck I am 90% sure we don’t resign LaRoche next year. I know we will let him walk. We don’t have the money. It is a huge deal because instead of resigning Huddy or Vazquez and finding a power hitting OF we have to now find a 1st baseman this offseason. Say this is definitely something.

And I mean extending Vazquez’s contract

We certainly can’t analyze the deal with respect to “what we got/didn’t get” for Teixeira. That’s a sunk cost at this point and whether you liked/disliked the Tex deal, gauging moves that happened subsequently to that deal is a tricky proposition. In hypothetical: What would you think of the Tex deal had we resigned him? Remember that re-signing Tex would likely have meant no Vazquez and no Lowe. I don’t want to turn this into a Tex-redux discussion, but Kotchman has to be evaluated as his own player at this point rather than a derivative of the Teixeira deal.

Short-run, I think this is a decent deal for the Braves. Laroche should provide some extra pop, which is what most on this blog have been craving for sometime. Long-run, that Kotchman was undercontrol for a nice cheap price for a couple more seasons can’t go unnoticed. The Braves have a lot of money coming off the books this offseason, and the trade of Kotchman only means more money will be available. There are tons of possibilities….maybe they move Chipper over to first in the offseason….maybe they make another deal and add some free agents to boot. For me, it’s too early to evaluate the long-term prognosis of this deal as this deal just further solidifies what an important offseason Frank Wrent is going to have.

For now, let’s hope Laroche turns into the second-half monster he’s known to be, and that the Braves can continue to keep their playoff hopes alive.
http://tomatalk.mlblogs.com/

Moneyball you are starting to sound like that wingnut Michelle Bachman. Only “real” Americans should get to ——–. (fill in blank here). Why does questioning a mindless trade make you less of a fan. I would much rather have “fans” who demand the best approach from management. Making SMART moves is the sign of being a real fan. Making dumb moves doesn’t qualify you for anything. This was a really mindless trade. We have a prized prospect in the minors at 1B so we trade for a guy who is a FA at the end of the year???? So then we have to sign someone who will wind up blocking Freeman in the later stages of his contract, or we will sign some hack who is willing to sign a short term deal. You really want to look down the road as well as what this MIGHT accomplish over the next 8 weeks. Wren has decimated our farm system, once the best in baseball. Now this bonehead move.

Decimated our farm system? Really? They were ranked 4 by Keith Law to being the season. Look at who he traded that was significant. Tyler Flowers-traded for Vazquez and blocked by McCann. Gorkys Hernandez-traded for Nate McLouth. You wouldn’t do that? Be realistic. You can look back even as far as the Tex trade and only 2 of those players are actually panning out.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

Billreef, decimated our farm system? Wow.

Gorkys is perhaps the worst of it, but certainly Elvis and Salty. Tyler was tough but i can’t argue with Vasquez. The problem really is what are we getting for anybody? Cast off’s with real limited upside. Our real problem is the amount Wren had to overpay in the offseason for Lowe and Kawakami. This limits who we can trade for because Wren has nothing left to spend. He has a hard cap from Liberty and it is all spent. I mean we have 3 times the payroll of Florida and look at how they stack up against us. I like our team a little better but, they field a really competitive team with the lowest team payroll in baseball. We are just not that smart up top right now.

Billreef…Wren didn’t send Elvis and Salty to Texas. Scheurholz did. Man, it is still amazing to me how so many people still attribute that trade to Wren. Unbelievable.

bcimf, I understand, I still feel sad for Wren cause some people keep on putting that monkey on his back. Gorkys the worst of it? You gotta be kidding me. We have McLouth for him and prospects are a gamble. You don’t which are bust and which are studs. Plus Salty was never gonna make it here. Plus, Elvis are blocked by Renty and Esco. I understand how you feel, we’ve been giving our farm system for crap half the time. But not all trades become what we want it to be.

I stand corrected I was thinking of the Kotchman trade which Wren did engineer. I am really psyched that I can amaze you though.

Even still, the Kotchman trade didn’t involve any players from the Braves farm system. So I’m still curious as to how Wren has decimated our farm system.

Well, let me be deliberate my young firend because it is a complex argument.

Let’s start with Jordan Shafer who at the end of spring training was the Braves no. 1 outfield prospect. You bring him up to a club that has a hittining coach who has destroyed the swings of every batter he’s gotten a chance to work with. Then when he falters and has to go back down, your number one prospect is 19-20 years old and playing in AA for the 1st time. Can you see how that “decimates” your farm system. If not I can’t help you.

Now we have an outfield comprised of GA who wasn’t resigned for peanuts by the club he spent 16 years with. He can’t play defense any longer(shouldn’t even be playing in the NL) but we were the only club willing to take a flyer. And he is the success story of our outfield.

We pass on Andruw who couldn’t come back because he would have to work with that same hitting coach. He hits a ton of home runs in limited playing time with his new team.

We start the season with our last great home grown(farm system) talent. “The Natural” as proclaimed by many. It’s painfully obvious that he clashed with our hitting coach when he tried to improve his swing with someone who might actually be able to help him. He leaves and hits for avg, power and a ton of RBI’s as soon as he gets away from Atlanta. This from a guy who according to most on this Blog, had no power swing left.

It’s simple, we have some great players and great talent on this club, but as long as it has FW and TP near the top of it, it will continue to destroy our young talent and make mindless trades.

oh and for those that love the term. SMELL TEST

Just talked to LaRoche. He’s stuck in the Baltimore airport, but plans to be here tomorrow. Check out the new entry I posted about this.

It’s a tough debate about these types of moves. Yeah, on one hand, a LOT of potentially good young guys have been dealt. Where they fit into the grand scheme of a major league team remains to be seen. To this point, NO ONE we’ve dealt away in the past 2 years is remotely close to a solidified MLB-caliber player: (1) Salty’s batting all of .240 with 18 BB’s/91 K’s with the much loved batting guru, Rudy Jaramillo. (2) Matt Harrison’s basically established he’s a 4/5 guy at best. (3) Andrus has played nicely, but he’s still young and isn’t destroying the World. He’s got a lot of potential, but right now, it’s still just potential. (4) Gorkys Hernandez has yet to play a game at the Major League level. He’s gone from the Tigers to the Braves to the Pirates without a look. Maybe he’ll turn into a nice player, but let’s reserve judgment on him. (5) Morton’s got a lot of talent, and he’s pitched decently for the Braves. However, he didn’t really slot into the Braves long-term plans once Hanson’s time of arrival was sped up.

Frenchy’s a different story. He’s still not taking walks: Just 1 in 17 games for the Mets, and even assuming TP was somewhat to blame for Francoeur’s downfall, it takes MUCH longer than 15 games to correct swing errors. You can’t integrate swing changes into a player’s plan within a few games….whatever uptick he’s experiencing is due to something beyond “bad coaching.” Though to be fair, I’m certainly not spending time defending TP either.

Wren’s performance is still out. He’s made some GREAT moves: Vazquez most importantly, but no one should overlook the decision to sign David Ross either. He’s made some good moves: McLouth. He’s made some questionable moves: Lowe/Kawakami. There are a couple TBD: Laroche, Church. Anderson’s done what everyone here should have expected him to do. Bill Reef’s right that there was nothing to get excited about over this guy, but he’s performed reasonably well, and he was not a major investment. We were not going to get anything better for the 3 million we spent on him. I’d preach patience on Wren’s performance as I think this offseason may be even more important than last offseason. Lots of money coming off the books (Soriano, Gonzalez, Anderson, Laroche), an important decision (Hudson), and a wave of talent that is creeping closer to MLB-readiness (Heyward, Freeman) that Wren must consider when structuring his roster. Finally, one underrated move that I’ll give Wren some credit for is having the guts to say bye to Glavine under less than perfect conditions. Glavine was done and Hanson was ready, but it was ugly timing and he took some fallout for making that decision. That’s one of those business decisions that don’t always go over well, even though they can end up being for the best.

correction: meant to say Morton’s pitched decently for the Pirates. Sorry about that.

Billreef you do realize that not only is Jason Heyward Atlanta’s best prospect he is considered the best prospect in baseball period by Baseball America. Freddie Freeman also happens to be 15. Schafer had issues with major league fastballs. This could have been attributed to playing in the Mexican summer league where the majority of pitchers throw a lot of breaking balls. Atlanta still has 8 of their top 10 prospects to begin the season. Only Hernandez (4) and Locke (7) were traded. Hernandez was obviously traded for an All-Star while Locke had tremendous upside but was having horrible control issues. The farm system is not decimated.
http://moneyball.mlblogs.com/

despite the fact that we are starting to hit with a little more power, our offense is primarily based around gap hitters so to add a more consistant power threat, i think its a good move. might i remind everyone his last full season with the braves laroche hit over 30 hrs. all in all i do think the deal is bittersweet because i like the way kotchman contributed to the lineup but how can you pass up the chance to have laroche at the same time!

@Billreef,

There’s nothing wrong with not liking Wren, or not agreeing with the decisions he’s made. But, when you make grand accusations, then please back it up. “I think this guy does deals just to do deals. Makes him feel important.” At least acknowledge that he has made some GREAT moves. There has never been a GM in the history of the game who didn’t make several moves that they later regretted. But you’ve got to weigh the bad with the good, and so far Wren has done more good than bad. Put opinions up for discussion…great. But when you go on and on about how awful Wren is and then I ask you to clarify your position that Wren has “decimated our farm system” you can’t even do that. It’s one thing to say, “I don’t agree with how he’s handled a couple of our prospects.” That’s fine. But decimate? The Braves farm system was top 5 at the beginning of the year and the Braves have done little to alter that. You’ve mentioned 5 Braves prospects (on top of Elvis and Salty, whom I pointed out were shipped out before Wren came into the picture) in defense of your argument: 1) “Gorkys [Hernandez] is perhaps the worst of it.” Really? A guy who is still a ways from making it to the bigs and we trade him for an IMMEDIATE upgrade, and he’s the worst of Wren’s decimation of the farm system? 2) Jason Heyward–I couldn’t understand what your argument with him was, so feel free to elaborate. When you say he’s 19-20 years old and “playing in AA for the first time” does that mean you think he should’ve been farther along by now? 3) Jeff Francoeur–he’s played in less than 20 games in New York and already you’ve proclaimed the second coming of “The Natural”. If you remember, his past two April’s he showed signs of turning things around at the beginning of the season, only to turn right back around and show us that, despite his tremendous athleticism, he’s a sub .300 OBP guy who can’t take a pitch if his life depends on it. Give him a little more time and I’m sure we’ll see the Frenchy we’ve all grown to love. 4) Jordan Schafer—and this goes for Francoeur as well…it’s seems your biggest beef with how they’ve been handled has more to do with Terry Pendleton than Wren. True, Wren could have the guy fired if he wanted to. But few teams make moves like that mid-season and you have no idea how much pull or say Bobby has with regards to his coaching staff. Perhaps Bobby is insisting on TP’s presence. Another thing with Schafer, he hurt his wrist the first week of the season and just played through the discomfort. That same injury has basically shut him down. We have no idea how that wrist injury affected his mechanics and, consequently, his performance. To blame Schafer’s disappointing start on Wren is premature. My guess is Bobby had a big say on him making the team this Spring. 5) Tyler Flowers—I’m glad you agreed that his trade brought us Vasquez, who has helped us more than Flowers ever would have, since he’s blocked by McCann.

Also, in defending your “decimation of the farm system” stance, you bring up G.Anderson and Andruw Jones. I’m sorry, but Andruw Jones didn’t refuse to sign with the Braves because TP was the hitting coach. TP was here before Andruw left, and if you remember his hitting got worse when he left Atlanta. Andruw Jones didn’t sign with the Braves because the Braves didn’t want him. There was too much uncertainty there. We didn’t need another reclamation project. And as far as G.Anderson is concerned, I would’ve loved to get someone more suited to the NL and who was younger and had more life in his legs, but for 2 million dollars he wasn’t a bad pickup.

Ok.
I don’t think you understand what I mean when i make a particluar argument.

I mean my Jason Heyward comment was not to detract from Jason at all. I saw him numerous times in ST and thought he was an amazing prospect. But he isn’t ready to help the big club. Atlanta’s system has good lower level prospects who have amazing potential but they can’t help now. And believe me this team still needs hitting help, now.

You also missed my main argument which was that Wren blew it in the offseason by overspending on SP. Lowe and KK were a reaction to his inability to land AJ and Peavy. I don’t think you can look at one move in a vacuum. If one good move costs you the ability to complete numerous others is it really a good move? By his own words he had 2 objectives in the FA market. Starting pitching and a power outfield bat. He only completed one of those. That’s 50% in my book and last time I took a test that was a failing grade.

And yes, TP is still his responsibility. How much more do we need to see? Maybe decimated was too strong of language, but I am just frustrated by the lack of high minor talent that could fill some holes or provide trade bait right now.

The fact is that rebuilding the rotation was a huge job and having the consistency night in and night out from the rotation is why we are even relevent at this point. Wren overpaid for Lowe and KK but i think that was better than DECIMATING the farm for Jake Peavy. Did you happen to see what it took the white sox to get him now when he is injured? There would be no Yunel and half of our top 10 prospects would also be gone. That would be decimation. Wren has done a good job and has also has made some mistakes like every other GM does at sme point. Look at Theo Epstein’s decision to sign Smoltz! Wren made the right choice not to throw 5 mil at a 42 year old question mark. Overall he has done his job by making moves to keep his team competitive down the stretch.

The fact is that rebuilding the rotation was a huge job and having the consistency night in and night out from the rotation is why we are even relevent at this point. Wren overpaid for Lowe and KK but i think that was better than DECIMATING the farm for Jake Peavy. Did you happen to see what it took the white sox to get him now when he is injured? There would be no Yunel and half of our top 10 prospects would also be gone. That would be decimation. Wren has done a good job and has also has made some mistakes like every other GM does at sme point. Look at Theo Epstein’s decision to sign Smoltz! Wren made the right choice not to throw 5 mil at a 42 year old question mark. Overall he has done his job by making moves to keep his team competitive down the stretch.

The fact is that rebuilding the rotation was a huge job and having the consistency night in and night out from the rotation is why we are even relevent at this point. Wren overpaid for Lowe and KK but i think that was better than DECIMATING the farm for Jake Peavy. Did you happen to see what it took the white sox to get him now when he is injured? There would be no Yunel and half of our top 10 prospects would also be gone. That would be decimation. Wren has done a good job and has also has made some mistakes like every other GM does at sme point. Look at Theo Epstein’s decision to sign Smoltz! Wren made the right choice not to throw 5 mil at a 42 year old question mark. Overall he has done his job by making moves to keep his team competitive down the stretch.

The fact is that rebuilding the rotation was a huge job and having the consistency night in and night out from the rotation is why we are even relevent at this point. Wren overpaid for Lowe and KK but i think that was better than DECIMATING the farm for Jake Peavy. Did you happen to see what it took the white sox to get him now when he is injured? There would be no Yunel and half of our top 10 prospects would also be gone. That would be decimation. Wren has done a good job and has also has made some mistakes like every other GM does at sme point. Look at Theo Epstein’s decision to sign Smoltz! Wren made the right choice not to throw 5 mil at a 42 year old question mark. Overall he has done his job by making moves to keep his team competitive down the stretch.

What in the world? Kotchman a great glove and a lefty 1st bagger for LaRoche who is not as good with the leather but might hit 10 more dingers a year for ya, He’s a free agent so “See ya Rochie” at the end of the year.
I just don’t get it unless the friendship between Chipper and Adam is such a big deal that it might get Chipper hitting HR’s more? Otherwise I just don’t get it. Hope it works out for all concerned.
Thought the McClouth deal might have been good but he’s hitting what 265? The kid they basiclly ruined to get him would have been a great CF if given some time.
I do agree that TP is not a great hitting coach , just see Kelly Johnson, Andruw, and now I think McClouth is under his spell.
Hope I’m wrong but I see nothing bright ahead for any of this.

I will agree that signing KK was a bit too much. That was my thought then, and it still is now. We definitely could’ve used that 8 million elsewhere. That said, you can see the trend in baseball to overstock your starting pitching. Look what happened to the Braves last year due to lack of starting pitching. Look at the Red Sox this year. Everyone was saying how the Sox were going to trade Penny due to their logjam at SP, but with injuries and lack of performance (Smoltz), that surplus is starting to look real good to them. I don’t fault Wren for it. I disagree with it, but don’t fault him. He took a calculated risk to overstock starting pitching while hoping that 1) Francoeur would return to older numbers, 2) Their CF dilemma could be resolved from within (i.e. Schafer), and 3) Kelly Johnson would continue the success he showed over the last month and a half of last season. If 2 of those 3 had proven successful this season would’ve started off much differently and Wren would’ve been hailed as a genius. Hindsight is 20/20. And unlike the Sox, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, we do not have the financial resources to cover mistakes. But none of them did and Wren’s had to try to scramble to make changes via the trade market. As far as him signing Lowe—you mentioned that it was merely a reaction to them not signing AJ or getting Peavy. I was elated when that happened. It would’ve taken a decimation of our farm system to get Peavy, as has been pointed out, and AJ will be on the DL before long. And that “reaction” wasn’t a bad one….it’s called a Plan B. Most GM’s work with one. Overall, I know Wren wishes he could have a couple of moves back, but like I said you weigh the bad with the good and he’s made several great moves…..1) getting rid of Renteria for JJ. 2) trading for Vasquez (which a lot of people weren’t happy with at the time and it’s turned out great). 3) Putting sentiment behind and letting Smoltz and Glavine go (I love them both, but it was time) 4) getting McLouth–I’m still happy with that trade. It was mentioned above by redtailwolf that the McLouth deal was a good one until he started hitting .265. That is actually up from when he was traded here. He’s cheap and he’s serviceable and an immediate upgrade. 5) We can’t evaluate the LaRoche/Kotchman trade yet. I know it’s mentioned that it didn’t make sense because LaRoche is gone at the end of the year and Kotchman still has abitration years ahead of him. My gut tells me that the Braves didn’t want Kotchman manning 1B next year. Perhaps this gives them some flexibility to add via Free Agency or through the trade market by using a starting pitcher as bait. We’ll find out. And I wouldn’t be surprised if we let Johnson or Church, or both, go by not offering arbitration. That would clear up another 3-8 million to use elsewhere.

Do you guys ever stop and realize that some of these players weren’t playing well because they were INJURED? Jordan wasn’t playing as well as he could because his hand was tweaked. Kelly wasn’t hitting anything because of his wrist. Kawakami, despite the whole Japanese audience issue, was a bad move. And I believe that we’ll sign LaRoche to a 1 year deal in the offseason. His numbers aren’t what they should be, so he will be a whole lot cheaper when it comes to inking another deal. Say what you will about Wren’s moves, but be thankful that we don’t have the front office of a team like the Orioles, who consistently make stupid deals.

Buncha negative Nancys…buzz off a-holes, find a different team to whine about.

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