One-hit shutouts are also quite rare

If there was anybody who actually bought into that speculation that the Braves might actually trade Jair Jurrjens before this year’s trade deadline, I guess Jurrjens basically killed those ridiculous thoughts last night.

Yes, within the next year or two there could certainly come a point when the Braves need to move either Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson.  But looking through this season’s final three months, it seems quite safe to assume they’ll stick with these two young hurlers who rank among the National League’s top four in ERA.

With last night’s one-hit shutout victory over the Orioles, Jurrjens lowered his Major League-best ERA  to 1.87 and became the NL’s first pitcher to 11 wins.

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Jurrjens is only the second Braves pitcher since the NL started calculating ERA in 1912 to notch 11 wins and post a sub-2.00 ERA in his first 15 starts of a season.  The other was Tom Glavine, who had 11 wins and a 1.53 ERA through his first 15 starts of 2002.

Also from Elias:   With Jurrjens matching the one-hit masterpiece Tim Hudson completed against the Brewers on May 4, this marks the first time since 1976 that the Braves have had two complete game one hitters or no-hitters in one season.  Phil Niekro and Andy Messersmith both threw one-hitters in 1976.

Via research done on STATS PASS this afternoon, it appears last night marked just the 23rd time since 1946 that a Braves pitcher allowed one hit or fewer while notching a shutout.   It marked just the 11th time has happened in Atlanta history (since 1966). Taking away a five-inning shutout Greg Maddux was credited for in 1997, this was just the 22nd time in franchise history and 10th time in franchise history.

There have been seven uncombined no-hitters in Braves franchise history with two of them coming during the Atlanta years  —  Niekro (1973) and Kent Mercker (1994).  With last night’s performance, there have now been 15 one-hit shutouts (min. 9 IP) in franchise history and eight of them have been completed during the Atlanta years.

I’m just throwing all of this out there to show how unique these masterpieces created by Jurrjens and Hudson truly were.  Neither Glavine or Maddux notched one-hit shutouts while pitching for the Braves.  John Smoltz’s only one came during a May 30, 1999 win over the Reds.

Since then, the Braves have seen their pitchers allow one hit or fewer in a shutout victory just three times.   Hudson is responsible for two of those occasions —   5/1/2006 and 5/4/2011 —  and of course Jurrjens is responsible for the other.

Warren Spahn was responsible for four of the 22 times a Braves pitcher has allowed one-hit or fewer in a shutout victory.  Tony Cloninger (2),  Hudson, Denny Lemaster (2) and Niekro (2) are the only other pitchers to do so multiple times in franchise history.

Speaking of Spahn, this marks the 48th anniversary of his epic battle against Juan Marichal and the Giants at Candlestick Park.  The Giants’ 1-0, 16-inning victory was claimed courtesy of the walk-off homer Willie Mays hit against Spahn, who was charged with just the one run and nine hits in 15 1/3 innings.  Marichal allowed eight hits over 16 scoreless innings.

Those wondering what kind of effect this had on Spahn should know he returned five days later and tossed a shutout against the Astros.  But his next start was made nearly three full weeks later.  As for Marichal, he was credited with 10 complete games in the 21 starts he made in 1963 after his the battle with Spahn.











I would be highly disappointed if they ever traded Hanson. I know a lot of fans complain about him for some inexplicable reason, but he has always been one of my favorite pitchers to watch. I hope they sign him to a long-term deal. There is no reason to harvest all this pitching talent if you can’t keep it.

Consider if all your pitchers are from the organization (not counting Jurrjens): Teheran, Beachy, Hanson, Minor, maybe Vizcaino or Delgado. You have so much room to pay a higher price for offense if all your pitching isn’t arbitration eligible/ not close to free agency. Sign Hanson to a long-term deal and you still have a lot of room in the budget for offense. You would only have to sign the pitchers every few years to keep them around.

Atlanta is known for good pitching and if we don’t have to sign high-risk, big contracts for pitching like Lowe/ Kawakami/ Hudson/ Hampton, etc. then imagine the outfielders we could afford.

Hanson is a Boras client, no hometown connections to the Braves, has no reason not to follow the bigger bucks when free agency hits. Hanson and or Jurrjens will eventually have to go. Starting last offseason, I speculated that the Braves would try and move Jurrjens in the 2011-21 offseason because it would shed the $6MM+ he will earn through arbitration, and have the best potential to give us a decent return. A trade of Jurrjens after this year would probably notch an organizations #2 or #3 prospects, along with a couple of other decent ones.

Spot on as usual brandon. Good post. Its a matter of when and not if we should trade JJ and tommy.

I agree that tommy has been one of my favorites to watch. And I disagree with anyone who says we will have to trade jj and or tommy. Lowe in hisprime could be a #1 but that’s over now. He is asinconsistent as they come. Huddy is as good as ever but I see him going the way of billy wagner. I think we could retain both and with medlin, beachy, and maaybe minor we could still have a very very toug rotation when huddy hangs up his cleats. Lowe and teheran or minor as trade bait gets us the most return in my opinion. Not to mention if uggla doesn’t get it moving we still have prado to move back to the spot he was an allstar at last year. But hey, its all about how u value the abilities of people. The value of jj and tommy combined with the length of time left in their careers is worth it by far to me.

Interesting points NC. The thing about prado is he is an all star second baseman offensively and defensively. But in LF he is basically average. It is frustrating having to move him out of 2b. He will obviously be moved to 3b when chipper hangs them up, but even then I would love to see prado back at 2b.

Next year will be very interesting. Check out the list of major league ready hurlers that may report to camp
Lowe (untradable contract)
Medlen remember how solid he was last year??
Terhan – have you seen his minor league stats??? he is ready.
Minor – unproven, but he was a #1 pick and at some point, needs to be given a shot.

I expect at least two of these guys to be gone – Hanson or JJ (they can’t afford both) and probably lowe (they will have to pick up a large porition of his contract, but it is doable now that only 1 year left) . I guess they may elect to keep Minor in the minors and move Medlen to the bullpen, but that still leaves 6?

No way you can keep Tehran down next year. He has to potential to be the best on the above list.

Uggs once again had a forgettable game. Bill – I need you call Freddie and get Conrad a start. At a minimum, can we hit Nate 6th and Uggs 8th. If he keeps it up, they are going to stop pitching to Freddie. Great run guys, keep it up. Nice to see Heyward heating up. Hard to believe, they are playing so well with very little from Uggs andd Heyward to this point. In fact, they haven’t had there 2nd best hitter (next to McCann), Prado for a month..

Where is PapaBear. Roy Halladay 100 pitches after 8 innings. What to do, what to do? Of course Roy throws 10 pitches to end the game. Fredi would have felt compelled in the true Bobby Cox tradition to traipse out 3 or 4 more pitchers. I get it.


You have been asleep at the switch for along time, PapaBear.

Just waiting on you to say something interesting, or at least different. Big deal that Halladay threw 110 pitches in a complete game. That’s what he does. JJ threw 113 in his. What is your point again?

I’d personally would like to keep both, which could happen if Time Warner either sells the team to a dedicated buyer (Mark Cuban, Flameshield ON), or decides to actually let FW spend some money, instead of trying to do something magical with a washed-up player (Troy Glaus).
JJ actually does have connections with the Braves as his father was/is a huge fan of the Braves. I’m sure when the time does come, there’s a better chance of him being signed than Tommy.
I don’t know if anyone is into pitching mechanics as much as I was/ kinda am. But Tommy’s mechanics looks like he will be prone to shoulder injuries/pain throughout his career (as his elbows go above his shoulder at the high cocked position), while JJ’s mechanics looks pretty much solid in the injury department (all his injuries have been non-arm related).
I personally believe if Minor and Tehran were in the pitching rotation next year, Minor would have better stats overall, as Minor has the upper hand in the experience department. Plus, Minor has been progressing very well in terms of his maturity and his pitches. If he can get his off speed stuff to consistently work, watch out.

If its a choice between keeping JJ or tommy then the post above summed up what is right. We should keep JJ. Its obvious. I hadnt thought about trading tommy before and wasnt aware he was a boras client. I think we can wait till the end of this year and then trade tommy. He will still be some way away from FA and we should get a huge return on the guy.

JJ, beachy, huddy, tehran, minor with medlen as back up would be a nice rotation next yr. I would trade Lowe now (and pick upa decent portion of his contract) and trade tommy in the winter. I would try and sign JJ long term, and if we cant then I would trade him too and try and get someone in return.

Our lead off hitter has an obp of only .300 and our no.2 has an obp of just .277. O dear.

Uggla is 5 for 5 in july. I think he is getting hot

Strikeouts of course!

Listen DA. The whole team is hitting like that. Are you missing something?

Hey be nice and such. It’s not nice to call someone names. Nice to see the hypocrisy is still running through you Bill. I can’t tell NC to shut up without some kind of BS self-righteous pep talk from you, wasn’t gonna let you get away with this one. 😉

Boy Fredi screwed the pooch on that squeeze.

Why he doesn’t let schafer hit a fly ball is just beyond me. Schafer almost always makes contact. WHY THE F*** is he bunting!!!???

Uggla and schafer are competing for the lowest OPS in the majors award. Its going to be close!

Oh my! Why squeeze there! That is why everyone dumps on Fredi.

Lets consider jordan schafer for a moment. Career stats: 300 ab, OBP .307, slg .298, average .214. sb % = 68%. HR = 3, rbi = 13. Really not very good at all. He needs to start producing because to me he is a minor leaguer playing in the majors. There is no evidence whatsoever that he should remain on the club when prado comes back.

You have just proved why you are such a moron Zippy. Since schafer joined the team and took over the leadoff role, the Braves are 22-11. Wha AN EFFING CATCH. omg.

Well I usually ignore you but I will lift my ignore just to reply this one (and only) time. The catch was good but it was a simple fly out that schafer got the worst jump possible on

Nate would have been looking for it in Left field somewhere. ROTFL.

Yeah, the catch was the #1 play on Baseball Tonight. But I guess you see the world differently from everyone else(who know anything about the game).

Your timing is amazing Zip. I’ve never seen someone who is so consistently wrong in my life.

Bill admits to have never come into contact with a mirror.

His new favourite is mr .602 ops schafer. Pretty comical that he says this guy is what makes the braves line up when statistically he is one of the worst offensive players in the mlb. haha.

Two out thunder. I love it.

I love it Zippy won’t reply to me. I’m free. I’m free.

Watch this, this will be Nate McCaughtStealing.

I agree that Schafers dynamics bring a whole new variable to the equation; blazing speed, not just good baserunning, a great arm, and great range go a long way. But it’s clearly obvious that he’s not ready for the leadoff spot just yet. I really feel that if he gets to free agency, we should jump all over Mike Cameron. Not only will it only run us around $225-230k, it will give us another proven defensive OF with good pop who can spell Schafer and/or McLouth against lefties, it would also block a potential target for the Phillies. Granted we don’t have the “play for Bobby Cox” advantage anymore, Mike should love to play for a contender.

225K. Are you clueless? ML minimum is about 400k.

Aside from all the other issues. He is 38 yrs old, unsignable by any other team in baseball, hitting .149. Hasn’t hit over .250 something for 4 years, lost about 3 steps in the OF. Do I need to go on? We need Mike Cameron like we need a freighter full of boat anchors.

Damn, so much for monkey boy not responding to my posts. And now he has Brandumb, helping him. Isn’t curious how they always show up at the same time? Kind of like they are in the same room, Both act like 12 yr olds and both are wannabe youth league soccer stars.

This is why I ignore you bill. Because some of us (everyone except you) come on here to discuss baseball and the braves. You seem to come on to try and argue with people.

Bill also admits to not being able to tell time, considering Zidane has been posting since before the game started, and I didn’t arrive home from work until the middle of the 6th. Nice one Captain Redundancy.

Braves catching up to date –

BA .310
HR 18
RBI 61

Not too shabby.

I was wondering what those combined statistics were on the way home. Nice post Papa. I wonder how that matches up with the rest of the league.

I really dont understand why nate isnt the lead off guy for the braves and schafer isnt down in the 8th spot. Just look at the OBP of both guys.

22- 11 is why DA. It’s because anyone who has ever played, watched or been around the game can see the obvious improvement of this team when Jordan leads off. Because Nate had 2 years to win the job and he failed miserably.

O right, interesting that people in baseball think you should lead off with your guy with an obp below .300 rather than the guy with an obp around .350. Thanks for the insight. Of course a career ops of .598 is also very very good. The stats are wrong and billreef is right I guess. Clearly by saying what you said you win the arguement. My stats arguement is very misguided.

Did you see where he stared tonite, rocket scientist? If baseball people don’t agree with me, then why is Schaf leading off for the team with the 2nd best record in baseball? Riddle me that, Joker.

The Major League minimum is $414,000 Bill. If you knew anything about business (or possessed a business degree like some of us), you’d know that Mike Cameron would only earn the pro-rated portion of that from the Atlanta Braves. You are obviously the clueless one. Don’t bring in a .250/.340/.450 hitting veteran defensive presence for the PRO RATED portion of the league minimum, but the .200/.275/.300 hitter is the reason the Braves are winning? Also, in less than 100 at bats inconsistently divided between a spot start and late inning replacement, Mike Cameron’s sub .200 batting average is not worth $250k, but Dan Uggla’s is worth $9MM? “Hasn’t hit over .250 something for 4 years” his lifetime batting average is .249, so yes, expecting more form him at age 38 is exactly what I had in mind. “lost about 3 steps in the OF” between arguing with fellow Braves fans and Phillie fans, The Jobless Billy Boy Wonder has all the time in the world to travel to Boston to watch all of Mike Camerons latest starts. I’ll also take your word over the statistics too. Mike Camerons last full season (2009 Brewers centerfielder) showed him having an 11.4 UZR. What a schmuck. I bet he wouldn’t contribute more to the team than Wilkin Ramirez has. Give up the big bad bully routine Bill, hit the showers. P.S.: The wager we had before the season is over, and I’ve won; Chipper has tallied coming into tonight 300 plate appearances. Go home Little Billy.

“or possessed a business degree like some of us”. You lying little SOS. You are 19 years old and go to some community college in Albany.

It’s amazing the way the school systems have developed, eh? Clearing out most of my college required academic and business classes while in high school made it possible to earn my associates in business administration in a mere summer semester and fall semester I also obtained certificates for Networking and Information Technology from a Technical college while in high school as well, Billy. Still working on that Computer Information Systems degree though.

Hey Brandie can we see a copy of your diploma to go with that picture of your name in the HS Soccer HOF?

Brandie you took “academic and business classes”. How many classes aren’t considered “academic” these days? You are such a lying little turd. I’ll bet you work at Wendy’s, or maybe security for a condo complex.

As soon as we see a neuroimage of the brain you claim you possess.

Brandie last I checked NO ONE claims to have a business degree, when what they have is an associates degree from a community college(lie like that on your resume and you’ll get canned) And who cares if you got “cerificate” from some technical school.I have enough certificates from accredited universities to wall paper a room. What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China? All this adds up to is LIAR. It is as transparent as the rest of your arguments.

o ok, good logic. Uggla is having a great season too. With uggla in the team we are 14 games above .500. WOW, uggla must be having a monster year. sub .600 career OPS. .292 season obp. Absolute offensive black hole = schafer. He should hit 8th if he is going to play. Him uggla and the pitcher can be 7 8 9. Hit the sub .600 ops guys back to back where they cant screw everything up. Lesson for you: a .598 ops isnt good. Also, having someone with a .292 opb hitting lead off isnt good. I guess it is in Bill world though. In bill world chone figgins is a leading candidate for mvp this year. haha, i guess stats are wrong and schafer is an amazing offensive player. stats = wrong. bill = right. Maybe we should not consider stats to induct people into the hall of fame but should just ask bill?

So why aren’t teams climbing over each other to get the amazing Mike Cameron. Oh, that’s right because they know what I do. He’s done. His avg. has dropped 33 points to .149 in the last month.He hit .083 in the last 30 days. He has been playing RF because he doesn’t have the speed to play center any more. He hasn’t stolen a base this entire year. McCann has more stolen bases than Cameron. Jesus when can I stop?

When you produce a hallway relevant point. Thanks, Everyone. While you’re at it, tell Mike Axsia he’s an idiot as well. Also, I’ve heard the phrase “he’s done” used quite a lot in the last couple of years when it came to older players. Those players, oh, just guys like Pat Burrell, Brad Penny, Bartolo Colon, Lance Berkman, Livan Hernandez, off the top of my head. I guess you’re risking no credibility with this stupid argument, but man, you REALLY need to learn when to shut up.

Yeah, he’s an idiot if he thinks the Braves are interested in Cameron. He’s still talking about Prado being hurt, when Prado is due back in days. Just because a guy posts on a Blog site and you copt his whole argument. Doesn’t mean either of you have a clue.

Dan Uggla’s horrific OPS is .580. The amazing mike Cameron has posted a June OPS of .283. Yeah, I want to get me some of that.

Oh and Schafers OPS while he has been having an off month is .576

I’m not saying I disagree with you, because I understand his value to our team. But how can you assume he is having an “off month”? Seems pretty convenient to support your argument. He has no MLB track record to support the belief that he had an off month. He has had an off career so far.

From 2005-2008 Schafer sported a .850 OPS in the minors. After the wrist injury, he completely revamped his approach at the request of the team. By all accounts, his work ethic has been extraordinary since he could really swing a bat again. His MLB stats don’t mean much because he is still adapting to fit that lead-off role. I’m watching him at the plate, I know for sure he is hitting the ball a lot harder and better than the stats indicate. Even the untrained eye saw the home run pulled back over the fence the other night. That’s just the obvious example. He has been robbed like that almost every game and the odds have to even out soon. His issues are nothing like the woes of Uggla and Gonzo, who both look completely lost at the plate. My opinion about this month is based on observation which isn’t always reflected in the stats. The stat heads think stats tell the whole story. That’s just not the case. 50 years of watching batters has taught me that. The 12 year old twins will probably disagree with this assessment, but Schafer is still starting for a reason. If I was gonna sit batters in this lineup, Schafer sure wouldn’t be a top choice

I like him in our lineup, and I also believe Nate is an awful baseball player. You don’t have to convince me that he has all the tools, I definitely wouldn’t want anyone else to take his place right now. However, it is hard to say he has had a bad month. I HOPE he has had a bad month, but I mean, he has never really excelled in MLB offensively. Minor league stats are what they are. And yes, he played with a hurt wrist last time…he is getting robbed this time…all excuses. I just want production, I don’t care who it comes from. I really hope it’s from Jordan, but if he can’t get it done we need to find someone else who can. I don’t know who, and I don’t care who, that’s not my job. But whoever it is, I’ll root them on😀

Zidane you can honestly talk about statistics all you want, but whatever billreef said is pretty much money. The team’s looked completely different offensively when Jordan’s on the base paths compared to Nate. Nate’s been in that role for about 2 years now and he hasn’t done anything to gain anyone’s attention; all he’s done is make us wonder what happened to him. The same could be said about Jordan, but once he’s on the base paths, it’s a new dynamic to the team’s offense. He also keeps the opposing sides defense honest by his bunts, and if you ever noticed, pitchers get distracted when a player like Jordan is on base. I’m not saying Jordan’s a better player than Nate, nor am I saying Nate is a better player than Jordan, but ever team needs a lead-off man, and Jordan is the best one we have. Have you heard of the saying: ” if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.”?
Also, stop *itching about Uggla’s slump. EVERYONE goes through it. Chips gone through it, Macs gone through it, and even Pujols has gone through it. I can almost guarantee you that Uggla will end up with 25 HRs and 60+ RBI’s by the end of this year. I also don’t understand your logic on why to put a player like Uggla down in the 8th spot. Has he had a bad year? Heck yes, but is that a reason to make it worse? No. If you put him 8th, he’s just going to get more crappy pitches to hit, which would make his slump last even longer, which is going to make him play worse (which is obviously something the team does not want). To end this little rant, Freddy has somewhere near 9 million reasons not to put him in the 8th spot and put him in the 6th.

You are just seeing what you want to see. That is why stats are so valuable because they are objective and you cant be blinded by your opinion. Schafers run in lead off has coincided with the team scoring basically no runs and only winning due to sick pitching. So the stats dont back up your arguement that schafer improves the line up in ways other than him OPS/OBP. Schafer has done NOTHING to prove he deserves to play in the majors. He has had over half a season now (across two years) and he has put up almost identical stats across the two years. His OPS is sub .600. How long do you persist with someone that bad? Its hard to find another starter at ANY other club with a worse career OPS. You coud make an arguement that offensivly schafer is the worst everyday player in the MLB. Heck even the amazing glove man/shortstop alcides escobar at the royals has a career ops of .626. Unless schafer proves himself then he needs to be replaced, by nate if needs be but preferably with someone we trade for

Yawn, no one cares Bill. Van flip, go home.

I agree with Bill on Schafer (painfully). Schafer has hit the ball better than his average. Plus his defense (and mainly throwing arm) are head and shoulders above Nate. I expect Wilkin to be sent down when Prado is ready and Shafer to stay. Why not rotate 6 players in 5 positions? Prado can spell both Uggs and Chipper and the team will remain strong. Chipper won’t mind taking 2 days off a week.. Nice to have some options besides Joe Mather. Also Bill, Nate has actually looked much better at the plate too this year, but his speed and arm can’t compare to Schafer. Check out Nates OBP – not too bad. Uggs, cummon we need you to make consitent contact.

The other day I was wondering who would be sent down once Prado was back, and silly me, I forgot all about Wilkin. Yeah, he’ll be the one heading back up I-85.

Amazing – all stars are announced. Venters in, chipper in, hanson and kimbrel out. Strange happennings. I guess chipper deserves it based on his career (plus he may have 50 RBIs), but how can they leave off Kimbrel and Hanson? I guess the pitcher spots were needed for all teams to have reps. Congrats to McCann and JJ as well. Mac will finall be starting.

Cliff Lee over Tommy Hanson – BS! Look at the numbers. Tommy has a better record and batter ERA. Hitters are hitting .193 against Hanson to Lee’s .229.

*better ERA

ok, so first of all i guess i hve to remind everone im not the old nc u are all used to. i guess i just may change my tag so im not confused for a retard. next on the agenda, love the debate here on shafer, mclouth. however, quit being childish. do u all really think that all the statistics and how things are going down on the field arent being weighed. i guarantee they are. hey, mclouth isnt living up to his ability offensively but he is doing better in that category than shafer. shafer is by far the better defensive player. unless we can get a single player to fill both roles we are fine as is right now. we have options to fill spots that other teams dont have. we are playing very well. would it be nice forthe pitchers not to feel like they have to go out and win every game on their own, yes. but thats not who we are right now. we could be if everyone plays like they could. once again its about the front office valuating the skill sets of each guy. we cant change how they view it so why get shitty with each other. just make ur point and if u cant get someone to see it ur way let it go.

Conrad and Hinske. Magic in a bottle.

spoke too soon

When do we give up on Proctor.

Not everyone on the club can be a cy young/mvp guy.

As soon as Medlen and Moylan are ready

OUCHY! Did Cliff Lee run out of gas after just 80 pitches through 7 innings today? Too bad Charlie didn’t have a decent pen he could count on to preserve that lead. 19 more pitches and 4 runs later the game was gone.

PapaBear, yeah, Cliff Lee seems to have run out of gas after having pitched 80 pitches in seven innings. Other than your head, what’s your point? No comment on Beachy performance. You now the guy who pitches 82 pitches in 5 innings and then peters out. Next in is the Braves’ Parade of Clowns, in this case a quartet who throw another 69 pitches for good measure and recorded the Braves’ 14th blown save. You know 14 blown saves or 1 out of 3 save opportunities?. But it is a good thing the Braves kept today’s Parade of Clowns down to 5. One more and the Braves would have to buy a short bus to hold all the Clowns and abandon the Clown car from which they have gotten many years of good service.

Bottom 8th: Toronto
– E. Thames homered to deep center
– J. Bautista homered to deep left
– A. Lind singled to shallow center
– J. Rivera flied out to right center
– E. Encarnacion homered to deep left center, A. Lind scored
– M. Stutes relieved C. Lee

Yet Lee made the all-star team and Hanson was left off. Go figure.

Its because the media are biassed towards the north east teams. Its so obvious, all you have to do is check perspectives/opinions section and its all about north eastern sides.

You do know that Halladay, Lee and Hamels were selected by the players and not the media, don’t you?

So the players arent exposed to the media then? Interesting. Never knew that thanks pherris.

Zindane, never knew the media is controlled by the northeast teams. Let’s see, teams from the south and west of the Mississippi: Braves, Rays, Marlins, Astros, Rangers, Diamondbacks, Padres, Angels, Dodgers, Giants, A’s, Mariners, Brewers, Royals, Cards and Rockies. That makes 16 out of 30 teams. Players are exposed to the media about as much as a typical Braves fan is exposed. And, for this lesson in the schooling of Zindane, no charge, it is free and you are welcome

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