Now it's Braves fans who are jealous of Philly fans
After Cliff Lee produced his dominant performance against the Yankees in Game 1 of the World Series on Wednesday night, I asked Phillies backup catcher Paul Bako if the pinpoint control that Lee has displayed during his past two outings merited a comparison to Greg Maddux.
"I'm not going there," said Bako, who served as Maddux's catcher when the legendary hurler set a National League record by not walking a batter over 72 1/3 innings during the 2001 season. "But when (Lee) is on, he's one of the best pitchers that I've ever seen."
Look there's obviously no reason to throw Lee in the same heralded category as Maddux. But while watching the veteran lefty encounter just three, three-ball counts and make a couple of defensive plays that would have made Curly Neel and Meadowlark Lemon proud, I couldn't help but draw memories from the days when Mad Dog was doing this regularity in Atlanta.
Those were the days when Phillies fans and employees despised the Braves. I've been reminded of this a couple of times while following the defending world champs over the course of the past three weeks.
Some of the phone calls and emails that I've received from Atlanta have provided indication that Braves fans are ignoring National League loyalty and hoping that they don't have to see the Phillies win a second straight World Series.
This is based on a small sample size and maybe this isn't the overwhelming feeling among Braves fans. Maybe I would have gained a different perspective had I actually chosen to spend some extended time away from my residence during the four days that I've been in Atlanta since the regular season concluded.
Still regardless of whether they capture this second straight world championship, it's pretty safe to assume that the Phillies have now replaced the Mets as the Braves most-hated division rivals.
While it will take a few more years for the Mets to rise back to a respectable level, the Phillies appear well-positioned to make a run at a fourth consecutive division title next year. Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Shane Victorino, Jayson Werth and Jimmy Rollins will once again form a solid offensive nucleus and Lee will be around for at least one more year to anchor the starting rotation.
My assumption is that the Phillies will attempt to lock Lee up long before he's given a chance to test the free-agent market at the conclusion of the 2010 season.
Regardless of what the long-term future has in store for Lee, the Phillies will enter next year as the favorites in the National League East. Meanwhile, with Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson and Tim Hudson in place, the Braves still should possess one of the NL's best starting rotation for many years to come.
Once the particulars in Hudson's three-year contract extension are taken care of in the next few days, we'll start to get a better sense about the exact makeup of next year's starting rotation. But regardles of whether it possesses either Derek Lowe or Javier Vazquez, it still should shape up as being more formidable than the one the Phillies possess.
Of course, it could prove to be an even more successful quintet if it ever solves that problem routinely presented by Ryan Howard.
Lee vs. Braves: As many of you remember, Lee had been utterly dominant before the Braves tagged him for six earned runs in just five innings on Aug. 29. All of the damage that evening came courtesy the three home runs that Garret Anderson, Matt Diaz and Yunel Escobar combined to hit during the fourth and fifth innings.
These three homers came within a span of nine at-bats. During the other 111 innings that Lee has worked since joining the Phillies on July 29, he has allowed just four other home runs.
Anderson's home woes: Based on his demeanor, there was always reason wonder if Anderson truly wanted to be in Atlanta this year. A quick look at his stats proves he was more productive away from Turner Field.
Home stats: .258 BA, 8 HR, 16 RBIs, 229 ABs
Road stats: .277 BA, 5 HR, 45 RBIs, 267 ABs
In 38 more at-bats, his road RBI total was three times higher than his home RBI total. Here are his RISP splits this past season:
Home: .173 (5-for-44), 1 HR, 9 RBIs
Road: .326 (23-for-78), 2HR, 40 RBIs
Needless to say, this isn't the kind of disparity you want to see out of a guy who batted third, fourth or fifth in 103 of the 124 starts that he made.
Odds and ends: Former Braves, Mike Mordecai, who played in Atlanta from 1994-97, has been hired as a roving Minor League instructor by the Blue Jays. (Sorry had to correct that. Earlier, I said he'd been named Toronto's bench coach)...GM Frank Wren, Bobby Cox and some of the club's other execs are currently holding meeting in Sea Island...Jon "Boog" Sciambi is handling some broadcast duties for his new full-time emplyoer ESPN during this week's World Series...Checked with Fox Sports South this week and didn't gain any indication about who might replace Boog on next year's Braves broadcasts. .
"I'm not going there," said Bako, who served as Maddux's catcher when the legendary hurler set a National League record by not walking a batter over 72 1/3 innings during the 2001 season. "But when (Lee) is on, he's one of the best pitchers that I've ever seen."
Look there's obviously no reason to throw Lee in the same heralded category as Maddux. But while watching the veteran lefty encounter just three, three-ball counts and make a couple of defensive plays that would have made Curly Neel and Meadowlark Lemon proud, I couldn't help but draw memories from the days when Mad Dog was doing this regularity in Atlanta.
Those were the days when Phillies fans and employees despised the Braves. I've been reminded of this a couple of times while following the defending world champs over the course of the past three weeks.
Some of the phone calls and emails that I've received from Atlanta have provided indication that Braves fans are ignoring National League loyalty and hoping that they don't have to see the Phillies win a second straight World Series.
This is based on a small sample size and maybe this isn't the overwhelming feeling among Braves fans. Maybe I would have gained a different perspective had I actually chosen to spend some extended time away from my residence during the four days that I've been in Atlanta since the regular season concluded.
Still regardless of whether they capture this second straight world championship, it's pretty safe to assume that the Phillies have now replaced the Mets as the Braves most-hated division rivals.
While it will take a few more years for the Mets to rise back to a respectable level, the Phillies appear well-positioned to make a run at a fourth consecutive division title next year. Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Shane Victorino, Jayson Werth and Jimmy Rollins will once again form a solid offensive nucleus and Lee will be around for at least one more year to anchor the starting rotation.
My assumption is that the Phillies will attempt to lock Lee up long before he's given a chance to test the free-agent market at the conclusion of the 2010 season.
Regardless of what the long-term future has in store for Lee, the Phillies will enter next year as the favorites in the National League East. Meanwhile, with Jair Jurrjens, Tommy Hanson and Tim Hudson in place, the Braves still should possess one of the NL's best starting rotation for many years to come.
Once the particulars in Hudson's three-year contract extension are taken care of in the next few days, we'll start to get a better sense about the exact makeup of next year's starting rotation. But regardles of whether it possesses either Derek Lowe or Javier Vazquez, it still should shape up as being more formidable than the one the Phillies possess.
Of course, it could prove to be an even more successful quintet if it ever solves that problem routinely presented by Ryan Howard.
Lee vs. Braves: As many of you remember, Lee had been utterly dominant before the Braves tagged him for six earned runs in just five innings on Aug. 29. All of the damage that evening came courtesy the three home runs that Garret Anderson, Matt Diaz and Yunel Escobar combined to hit during the fourth and fifth innings.
These three homers came within a span of nine at-bats. During the other 111 innings that Lee has worked since joining the Phillies on July 29, he has allowed just four other home runs.
Anderson's home woes: Based on his demeanor, there was always reason wonder if Anderson truly wanted to be in Atlanta this year. A quick look at his stats proves he was more productive away from Turner Field.
Home stats: .258 BA, 8 HR, 16 RBIs, 229 ABs
Road stats: .277 BA, 5 HR, 45 RBIs, 267 ABs
In 38 more at-bats, his road RBI total was three times higher than his home RBI total. Here are his RISP splits this past season:
Home: .173 (5-for-44), 1 HR, 9 RBIs
Road: .326 (23-for-78), 2HR, 40 RBIs
Needless to say, this isn't the kind of disparity you want to see out of a guy who batted third, fourth or fifth in 103 of the 124 starts that he made.
Odds and ends: Former Braves, Mike Mordecai, who played in Atlanta from 1994-97, has been hired as a roving Minor League instructor by the Blue Jays. (Sorry had to correct that. Earlier, I said he'd been named Toronto's bench coach)...GM Frank Wren, Bobby Cox and some of the club's other execs are currently holding meeting in Sea Island...Jon "Boog" Sciambi is handling some broadcast duties for his new full-time emplyoer ESPN during this week's World Series...Checked with Fox Sports South this week and didn't gain any indication about who might replace Boog on next year's Braves broadcasts. .
I don't care how much I dislike the Phillies... I'd still rather see them win the WS than the Yankees.
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Im still not sure who to root for. NL loyalty or division hatred? The Yankees and their unlimited payroll, or the Phillies who are on a current trend whose aim is to break Atlanta's record of consecutive division titles. A record I don't want to see broken. Especially if they win more WS championships than our own hometown heroes. But then again, that payroll with the Yanks...it would just great if even with that HUGE spending in the offseason and for their current roster, it can't buy them a championship. There's a military saying that the worlds most expensive army is the second best.
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I will always hate the Mets / Yankees more than any other team in baseball. New York sports teams drive me crazy with their elitist attitudes and irresponsible spending. The Mets will ALWAYS bee my most hated team in the division and in all of baseball. You have to tip your hat to the Phillies. They have done an amazing job of putting a winning organization together and they go about it the right way. They are fierce competitors and you can't be a Philly hater just because they've been successful. We need to keep the World Series Championships in the National League. The AL and ESPN all think that the National League is inferior.
In '96, we were up 2 games to 0 in the World Series against the Yanks. I went to game three... which started our collapse from potentially being back to back champs. From then on,the Yanks would be referred to as "The team of the 90's"... and all though they put together an impressive run and won more titles '96 - 2000... the Braves' worst to first year, and run of divisional titles in the 90's were far more impressive. The Braves were the team of the 90's hands down (take a look at their records for the decade).
I HATE the Yankees and nothing pleases me more than to see their 200 million dollar payroll not win a world series in 9 + years!!!
All I can say is GO PHILLIES, GO NL EAST, GO NATIONAL LEAGUE... and screw NY!!!
I amnot worried at all about the Phillies streak of divional championships because the Braves are winning the division next year. They only have 4... there's no way they are winning 10 more!!!
Am I the only one who has these opinions?
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I too am torn as to which team to root for in this World Series. The truth is, I despise both of them. The Yankees for the obvious reason of having the means to buy any and all star baseball players and stacking their line-up, but my ire with the Phillies runs much deeper. It goes back to the days mentioned in this blog when Maddux was king of the mound in Atlanta.
I remember many, many games both at the Ted and at Fulton County Stadium where I would encounter Phillies fans and be struck by their collective rudeness and lack of sportsmanship. Withstanding years of their abusive, profanity-laden rants led to my progressive distaste for both them and their team. It has festered to the point where I now absolutely can't stand either. I know that may not be fair to the Phillies players, but it's a fact.
So, I've pondered this dilemma long and hard and decided that I'll probably be happier if the Yankees win because I won't have to hear about "the world champions" when we play the Phillies next year. It's bad enough that they have the league and division.
Anyhow, may the Braves have an awe-inspiring winning season next year and may they beat the Phillies AND their nasty fans over and over and over........
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You have to root for the national league team if you are a Brave fan because they are a National league team, Especially against those damn Yankees.One of my closest friends that I have known since grade school is a diehard Phillies fan but during the 90's and thru2005 he rooted for my Braves every year they made the playoffs. I,m doing the same for him right now. BUt even if it wasn't one of our teams we would still be rooting for whatever represents the National League because thats the league we play in. Cmon its the damn Yankees. Give me a break.
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as a die hard braves fan living in the tri-state area i had a very hard time deciding who to root for because this world series is the worst possible outcome i could have imagined. I have made a list of reasons to logically pick who to want more to lose. I wont "root" for a team, i will hope a team loses. I have logically decided that i hate the yankees more than the phillies, for multiple reasons:
1. Payroll
2. 1996,1999. enough said.
3. The Media. Honestly, how annoying can they be.
4. AL vs. NL. Kinda gotta root for the team in your league.
5. Wouldnt you rather see 2 world series wins than 27? At least i feel that way living right outside NY.
If your a Braves fan living in the NY area, do you feel the same?
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I'm strictly an NL kind of guy myself. I despise the DH and think it's bad for baseball but it obviously extends the careers of many players who would otherwise be forced to retire.
As for the Phillies, I do envy them. They are the class of the NL East and simply own the division and the NL Pennant. Did I mention being the 2008 defending WS Champions currently in the 2009 WS?
Our Braves have already been regulated to being wild card material far before the 2010 season even starts. I think my Braves starting pitching is the best in the big leagues but the rest of the equation leaves much to doubt.
Example: defense, offense, outfield, base running, bullpen, etc.etc.etc. However, Atlanta does have the inside track on winning the wild card in 2010 simply due to their unbelievable starting pitching.
Frank Wren has work to do and Tim Hudson is a start in the right direction.
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I'm an ardent Braves fan who is wishing the Phillies the best. The Phillies gave baseball fans a treat this year. It was amazing to watch there power as well as defense capabilities along with some very good pitching. That said; if Phillies win, the Braves have the unique situation of playing the best team in baseball over and over again next year to the delight of true baseball fans. Let's hope we can strengthen our team over the winter and compete with the Phillies next year. That would be a treat to all Atlantans to see the Braves knock off the best team in baseball. This Phillie team, win or lose, is truely a great ball club. GO NL EAST
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It's nice to see the Phillies & Yanks beat up on one another.....for me (since the Braves are not in the WS) it's a Win-Win thing as I don't care for either one.........
Maybe next year we can get there..........Let's go Frank, get us some bats.........KEEP Vasquez.............that's a no brainer............
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I do envy the Phillies for making it to the WS, I can only hope Wren will make the smart moves during the off season to get us back into the playoffs next season. We are almost there, the team is coming together with the pitching and defense but we are still lacking a power hitter in the lineup.
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